Side view camera (mirrors) vs mirrors - thoughts?

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by scout2000, Jul 9, 2019.


  1. scout2000

    scout2000 Y-Block King

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    Side view camera (mirrors) vs mirrors

    Ever discovered, then took off down what initially appears to be a nice, wide trail, ripe for exploring? Then, after traveling a distance, it turn out that, at best, your newly discovered trail really isn't wide enough for your Binder, and is at best, an ATV or motocross trail.

    The funnel'ing down never happens up front either. Your always deep enough into the trail that backing out is difficult, and there's never any place to turn around.

    All the while, the sides of your Binder is taking on a serious amount of "hunting stripes", and your side view mirrors end up damaged, if not destroyed.

    Anyway, yesterday, I was searching the web for something completely different, and came across a reference for a camera replacement for conventional side view mirrors. From the pics (see reference URL's below), seems that they tuck in pretty tight.

    I've already got my iPad (temporarily) attached to my dash via magnets for GPS, I figure, what's another screen on the dash? At least in my head, this seems like a lot better deal than having my pristine restored IH West Coast Jr. mirrors beaten to death by saplings, small brush and Mesquite trees.

    Anyway, here is the link, followed by a Wayback Machine duplicate for when this URL drops off the web 6 months from now.

    https://www.geeky-gadgets.com/side-mirror-cameras-30-05-2019/

    https://web.archive.org/web/2019060...y-gadgets.com/side-mirror-cameras-30-05-2019/

    Please excuse the jap-a-ricer reference, I did search, but didn't come up with any other hits.

    And, to (finally) get to a point, wondering if someone else here might have already explored this, or, if any one else thinks that this might be a good idea.

    I don't see this as ever replacing large mirrors for someone towing a trailer, but, I'm thinking it might make sense for a daily driver/light trail rig.

    Thoughts+comments appreciated
     
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  2. Gunfighter97

    Gunfighter97 Farmall Cub

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    Less to snag = less brokens. I think I've broken like five mirrors (ironically all driver mirriors) trailing in the family polaris, but they're lifetime warranty soooo..... But thats actually a really good idea; I like it, but I wouldnt have a clue how to wire it since I'm challenged with that electricalltricity voodoo magic. Looks like a good deal especially if the cameras are down lower/closer to the rear for reversing in that thick buck brush I always plow through face first. There is one other alternative though, more lift. If the tree cant reach your mirrors, they cant be broken :D

    Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk
     
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  3. stroker3

    stroker3 Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    The Catalist concept semi from a few years back had them . Unsure if a camera will completely replace a mirror either, can imagine all sorts of issues with them in dirty winter conditions but wouldn't be suprised if they do at some point. Anything as simple and as cheap as the mirror will have to be replaced by something with all sorts of functions , safety features and added costs.....Wouldn't be suprised if at some point in the future, when those cameras go out, the vehicle will probably shut down....
    .:wheelchair:
     
  4. Jeff Jamison

    Jeff Jamison Lives in an IH Dealership

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    I drove a freinds f150,it has cameras all around and sensors that detect when someone is beside you.Problem is the drivers side mirror is now concave,making it very hard to use backing a trailer,new technology is advancing sometimes not for the good in my mind.
     
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  5. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    I only trust mirrors so far, and not for navigating tricky stuff. If it was me, I'd fold the mirrors in and swing my head around, look directly to the rear while backing. Depends on the situation though. Side mirrors can be a help when trying to avoid rocks and stumps.

    I was also going to ask if it's even legal (newer makes and models not withstanding). CA requires a mirror on the driver's side. Whether or not these camera systems are deemed equivalent to a mirror, or if a cop would cite you for it is another question.

    But I looked it up for TX. No law absolutely requiring side mirrors anyway:
    Side mirrors are only required if the view from the center mirror is obstructed. Mirrors must have a view of at least 200 feet to the rear of the vehicle.
    Reference Texas Statute Transportation Code Chapter 547 Section 602 - § 547.602
    Where and how would you mount the screens for these cameras in a Scout, assuming you could find them free-standing?
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  6. RBS

    RBS Farmall Cub

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    This technology is probably going to replace side mirrors soon but it won't be without its issues. For your trail oriented Scout, do the best of both worlds and use fold in mirrors for the trail but don't rely solely upon a system that has many potential failure points. Also watch it that you don't run afoul of state laws dealing with the use of smartphones and tablets while driving because a dash mounted iPad or iPhone used as a video monitor may run afoul of these laws or at least be in enough of a gray area that you will get caught up in a hassle.

    All three of my current vehicles have back up cams and I only find that technology really useful with the pickup but I use it with caution. It projects helpful lines on the screen showing the area the back of the truck will occupy as you back out but it isn't fully accurate when turning sharply and the truck WILL protrude into side areas that the orange caution lines originally show as safe. This view, combined with the proximity sensor system, is very handy for getting out of tight spots with my crew cab where you need to back up as far as possible but you can't trust the side indicators completely and I rely upon the side mirrors for that view. With the Corvette, I find the front cam far more useful than the rear because the Z06 version comes with a very expensive front splitter that won't stand up to a curb. But the implementation is a bit poor because you cannot activate the camera view until you are at a very slow speed so when pulling into a parking space it will often refuse to engage; that wouldn't bother me if it would buffer the request and bring the camera up as soon as you drop to the required couple of MPH but that isn't the case. My 2014 Cadillac ATS is the worst of the bunch with the backup cam view sometimes taking several seconds to come up after shifting into reverse, if you wait for it you will look like you are asleep at the wheel. To add to the fun, sometimes when using the nav system it will replace the backup view with the nav map at some point while backing out. Technology poorly implemented, which is often the case, basically sucks.

    Cameras make a good supplement but I don't look forward to them as a complete replacement for mirrors which are the epitome of the KISS principle. One little spot of mud will temporarily blind the camera. One bit of technology I really like in my 2018 GMC HD pickup are the very bright LED backup lights integrated into the towing mirrors. They are aimed nicely so that you don't see them while looking into the mirror and they do an exceptional job of lighting up the area around where you are backing.
     
  7. scout2000

    scout2000 Y-Block King

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    I commented on this, at least briefly, in my initial post. I've got plenty of open space on the dash, both on my 800 and my 80. FWIW, and repeating my earlier comment, I've attacked magnets to the back of my iPad mini, and, simply stick it to an open spot on my dash for GPS navigation (and/or music). Easily removed when ever I need to pull the iPad, i.e. extreme weather (hot or cold), possible theft area, need to sync with computer inside.

    Plenty of room left for camera screen(s) to function as a side mirror.

    Gotta love that metal safety dash. Magnets were the future, at least, until computers came along, and the interior of cars moved from steel to plastic.

    Side mirrors (or camera), vs turning around. Absolutely. Be it a mirror, or camera, or what ever, it's just a tool that is available to us, but in the long run, I'm going to use whatever is best, even if that means turning around in my seat and watching, as I back up.

    Back to the original context though, I've seen a lot of mirrors destroyed on trails, and, in my particular case, most of the vehicles I've observed this on has been Scouts or Scout 2's. I'm sure there is an example out there I've either missed (or just forgotten), but I can say that I've ever seen Scout fold in mirrors. This just seemed like it might be a discussion worthy alternative. Again, thanks all for looking. :)
     
  8. mallen

    mallen High Wheeler

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    .Do they count as rear view mirrors from a legal perspective, or do you need real ones to avoid being pulled over? On the trail it of course does not matter. If you had to ha e real mirrors, you might be able to make some sort of a quick disconnect with a couple of hitch pins in a nicely made bracket.
     
  9. scout2000

    scout2000 Y-Block King

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    I got to admit, the focus on legality in this thread is the big head scratcher for me.

    I made the assumption { and you know where that puts me :) } that given this technology was coming out from an OEM auto vendor to be sold to the general public, that this was a cat that had already been skinned?

    Given I'm probably just overlooking the obvious, someone clue me in her.
     
  10. Gunfighter97

    Gunfighter97 Farmall Cub

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    Would be kinda cool to install within the mirrors? So if you folded them in you could use the cameras as the mirrors for parking, storage, faceplanting into buck brush ect...

    Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk
     
  11. mallen

    mallen High Wheeler

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    Most of those issues are a patchwork of state laws. For example, I can go get limo tint on my windows, front and back, from anywhere, or even buy a kit to do it myself. Similarly, I can buy headlights that blind oncoming cars. However, I can get a ticket for those as well in many states. The tint will get me one not only in California (the state that everyone complains about) but Utah as well. On the other hand, Ive heard its just fine in Arizona. You can sell just about anything you want, until a judge orders you to stop. I know that the cameras were talked about 20 years ago, and at the time I recall hearing that they were not legal as a mirror replacement, because they were not actual mirrors as specified in most statutes.. Thats why I brought it up, thinking that it might be a good idea to specifically verify that the legality issue has been resolved before putting money down on it. From the perspective of the actual technical and practicality issues involved, they absolutely can replace a mirror. While not a mirror replacement, my new Nissan has a rearview camera that sees in the blind spot directly behind the car, and it works great.
     
  12. BGScott

    BGScott Farmall Cub

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    I have side view cameras on my rv. Only one screen, when I activate my turn signals the view changes from the back camera to the side. I absolutely love them for checking the blind spot and have wondered why this hasn’t caught on in passenger cars. I have side mirrors also but get a better view through the cameras. Don’t know how that equates to a trail but I expect to see them on a lot of vehicles soon. I did install a backup camera on the scout.
     
  13. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Oh sorry! I must have missed that. It was morning. Not had my full need of coffee yet.

    I talked about this in my first post. If you read it, the fact is that TX (the OP's residence) doesn't seem to require side mirrors at all, so long as you have an inside mirror from which you can see well. So I would not hesitate to mount cameras I guess.

    FYI, I got my information above from Reddit. The relevant penal codes are mentioned:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Jeep/comments/6ajc7g/mirror_laws_for_all_50_states/
     
  14. jmait769

    jmait769 High Wheeler

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    I used a pair of Rigid Reflect mirrors on the 69 that fold in either direction if hit.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. RBS

    RBS Farmall Cub

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    What you need to be a little cautious about is what you use for your inside monitors for these cameras. A lot of states are getting very restrictive about using electronic devices while driving and if you use a smartphone or pad type device for your video monitor you may run afoul of these laws. Be sure and check your state regulations on the use of "smart" phones and similar devices and how they can be placed and viewed in cars.

    Make sure that your setup provides an essentially real time display and this can definitely be an issue if feeding the camera to a multipurpose device which will at times do other housekeeping tasks which will delay screen updates. I suspect that you will want the simplest display with sufficient resolution because you really don't want it doing anything else. A delay between what the camera sees and what the monitor displays can be very disconcerting, especially if the delay period varies. In some situations a little lag is a big deal and this is why as someone who does a lot of sports photography I will be staying with my pro series DSLR bodies for some time instead of going with the new mirrorless bodies which use an electronic viewfinder which creates a very slight delay but slight is too much for my use.

    I haven't kept up with the latest federal laws but the U.S. was lagging the EU and Japan in allowing electronic replacements for traditional side view mirrors.
     
  16. Ron A

    Ron A Binder Driver

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    I know the brush scenario. Trails around here, that were Scout trails, won't take an ATV without ripping half the body off. I would rather spend my off road money on a new chainsaw. I see those mirrors more applicable for street use, or open trails.
     
  17. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Wait.... Magnets?

     
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  18. scout2000

    scout2000 Y-Block King

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    Absolutely. Can there honestly be anyone here on BP who doesn't love magnets?

    FWIW, the magnets in the attached photo are cheap, .75" square magnets that I have (crudely) gone after with a die grinder to provide a smooth, rounded surface.

    Dare I share my (temp) audio situation? I don't have anything permanent installed yet, and I'm still figuring out a long term solution. Till then, and again, temporarily, I'm using cheap, powered BlueTooth speakers, secured via large, circular magnets.

    iPad.magnets.jpg
     
  19. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    A longer scene for context. It's what I always think of when electronic devices and magnets are used in proximity to one another.

    This scene precedes the one I posted above. Such a brilliant show. Makes me want to watch it again.

     
  20. scout2000

    scout2000 Y-Block King

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    I've never watched Breaking Bad, although, it sounds like you might highly recommend it. Did they use the magnets?
     

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