Rich Idle will not pass Emissions Test

Discussion in 'Injection Tech' started by DanK, Mar 9, 2018.


  1. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    That looked like fun!

    I'm not having much luck with 0D or 0E ADX file.
    Only getting a couple data inputs and they aren't right.
    Are you sure your not in limphome mode?
    Are you watching the dash display or the history table while your logging?
     
  2. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    I'm no expert on fuel injection and don't know that vehicle or what its current system includes, but do know that other factors besides the computer can enter into the situation. Is this happening with the engine both cold and properly warmed up? Might the injector(s) not be atomizing the fuel well and might there be carbon or other deposits that are adsorbing some of the fuel which is being released/evaporating more (wrt airflow) at low speed? A sticking EGR valve and/or poorly responding Oxygen sensor? Heater element for O2 sensor not working? Timing not being advanced properly? Would/should the computer set codes for these? Does it have a catalytic converter which is fed extra air through a secondary method which isn't working at low speed?
    My understanding is that O2 sensor output varies in frequency and they are easily burned out by hooking the wrong gauge (e.g. voltmeter) to them, but timing, EGR valve operation, vacuum leaks etc. can be checked.
     
  3. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

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    Thanks, Bill. I need to spend a bit more time with the newer version (to me)TurnerPro. Particularly with the dashboard that I am having some difficulty setting up-just a matter of familiarity, I think. I’ll work on that and try another log.


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  4. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

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    Thanks for the feedback, Dana. It is a good point that a issue with an FI engine is not necessarily a programming or a computer issue. The problem seems a bit more pronounced when cold but the tests failed when the engine was well warmed.

    I do know that I’ve messed around with the AFR tables without really having the best understanding of what I was doing. So getting some expert review of my current state seems like a reasonable place to start. Maybe that exercise will send me down another path. I will research ways to test some of the things you’ve suggested.

    Again, thanks for your input.


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  5. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

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    I went to a different ADX file (A217_OD_v250.adx) because I couldn't find all the parameters I want on the dash in the one I was using. Took it for a quick drive to make sure it went into closed loop. I know there is not much data but does it look useful this time? If so, I will try to do a longer, diverse drive first chance I get.
    upload_2019-7-14_16-10-37.png
     

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  6. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

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    I was able to get about 30 miles of logging today so hopefully enough points to be useful. I've attached the XDL file and would appreciate any suggestions or questions.
     

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  7. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

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    I have verified that the symptoms are present when cold and at normal operating temp. Don't know if it is something that can be done by "eye" but the injectors both appear to atomizing the fuel and I didn't observe any drips. The throttle body is quite clean as is the inside of the manifold that I can see. I've not been able to detect any vacuum leaks. The cat is not being fed extra air from a secondary method so no issues with that.

    Still need to look into the EGR and O2 operation. Also, I'll check timing (if I can find my light). I assume that the FSM will state the expected advance?


    Thanks much for the suggestions.
     
  8. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

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    I found a dry-rotted cap on a vacuum port. Fixing that seemed to get rid of the stumble and belch I was having when rev-ing from idle. Still having visible exhaust at idle.
    I've attached a new datalog taken after fixing the vacuum leak. Any words of wisdom?
     

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  9. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The BLMs are looking close.
    The timing looked like it was jumping around at idle.
    Your timing table should be even around idle, say 400-800rpm and 20-50map.
    If your idle is set higher then 800 then go to 1000rpm.

    BLM.JPG
     
  10. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

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    Thanks, Bill. The "Engine Running RPM" is currently set at 679 (?). If I bumped that up some (maybe 750?) would you expect the idle to settle a bit?
    BTW, I did take a short drive yesterday and I still had the " stumble & belch" issue but the engine hadn't really reached full operating temp.
     
  11. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

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    So I spent some time trying to acquaint myself with TunerPro V5 and re-acquaint to the data logging/chip reading and burning/fine tuning the bin, etc. Shouldn't I be able to read a known programmed chip with my Burn 2, save the file as a .bin file then see what is in the .bin file using the appropriate .xdf file? I've attempted the aforementioned routine several different times with several different chips but everything is zeroed out when I look at it. The Burn 2 software indicates that all the reads I attempted were successful.

    Any thoughts or suggestions?
     
  12. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    yes you can read the chips with the burn 2 but you have to select the chip and i normally load a bin into the flash and burn so it sets the memory addresses.
    Then I read a chip and save the file.
     
  13. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

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    Nailed it! Thanks, Bill. I tweaked the idle VE v. MAP v. RPM so that I think the BLMs are right on. Also, increased idle speed v. temp to 650 above 32 C. It had been 600. I didn't do any logging with those changes since the stumble and belch when reving from idle remains.

    In a previous post you noted that the timing was jumping around at idle.. Were you suggesting that an increase in idle might take care of that? Or, is there a timing table that I should modify?
    Any other suggestions?
     
  14. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

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  15. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

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    I haven't confirmed it yet but it looks like the stumble may not be present when operating in open loop. If so, seems like there should be a setting that needs tweaking or increased/decreased.
     

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