Rich Idle will not pass Emissions Test

Discussion in 'Injection Tech' started by DanK, Mar 9, 2018.


  1. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Conifer, CO
    Bill and this board helped me with a 4.3L TBI swap into my '82 Jeep Scrambler several years ago. The Jeep was emissions tested on a dyno and passed every other year for several years without much trouble. Colorado changed their rules so that now my vehicle is sniffer tested instead of dyno and it failed miserably on hydrocarbons (220 ppm limit, 341 ppm tested) and CO% (1.20 limit, 2.39 tested) at idle. One of the testers mentioned that she could have failed it on a visual only. It seems to load-up on fuel at idle then belch a little black smoke and stumble when rev'ed. The Jeep passed everything with plenty of margin at 2500 RPM.

    I've forgotten just about everything I learned regarding tuning and programming but I really need to get this thing tested and registered within the next few weeks and am hoping to get a jump start from some experts. I used TunerProRT for data logging and editing and can provide a data log and/or whatever else that might be helpful to diagnose.

    Any suggestions on how to proceed? I appreciate any and all help.
     
  2. Darrel

    Darrel Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    3,863
    Likes Received:
    594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    I'm sure Bill will help you out, but have you pulled codes or reviewed his FAQ and troubleshooting pages?
    Too bad it's not 1981 or older. Every time you go to Air Care Colorado you risk someone calling you out on the visual which means having to visit the referee. Which if they don't cut you a break means pulling off the TBI. Once you get it hopefully fixed you might check with one of the independent test stations and see if they are willing to confirm your emissions are below thresholds (before you visit Air Care again). They can't give you a certificate since you have a '82, but they can run the sniffer test. BTW, I've known and heard of numerous people with FI swaps failing the visual so don't assume they will let you slide every time.
     
  3. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Conifer, CO
    Thanks, Darrel. She's not throwing any codes right now but I suppose that I may have something turned off that would generate a code. I'll review the FAQs troubleshooting pages to see if there are clues.

    Good suggestion on the independent test stations. AirCare's $25 charge with (1) "free" re-test within 10 days doesn't really encourage experimentation....
     
  4. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    17,068
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Whidbey Island, WA
    Run a data log and BLM with the provided winaldl and post here or email to me for review.
     
  5. Mark Aycock

    Mark Aycock High Wheeler

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,445
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Houston,Texas
    Darrel, if I moved to Ouray with a '78 Scout with Hamilton Fuel Injection would I have problems with the inspection? Thanks.
     
  6. DanK

    DanK Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Conifer, CO
    My ECM is 16196395. Do I recollect correctly that WinADL will not work with it? I don't have WinADL now but I can go get it if I need to. Can you work with the excel file from TunerProRT?

    Thanks much for your help.
     
  7. Darrel

    Darrel Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    3,863
    Likes Received:
    594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    No. Emissions testing is only on the front range. All your buddies will come visit you though. Which may or may not be a bad thing. :)
     
  8. scout2000

    scout2000 Dreams of Cub Cadets

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,008
    Likes Received:
    937
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    DFW, TX
    This seems implied, but I'm just asking so I understand correctly.

    Most states that I have lived in, that have/had emissions testing, typically have a rolling 25 year cut off, where once a vehicle reaches its 25th year after its model year, it is exempt from emissions testing.

    So if I understand what is being implied correctly, vehicles in Colorado have a fixed date, where, after MY1981, (i.e. 1982 or newer) and assuming that laws remain unchanged, will have to have emissions testing as long as it remains a registered, street drive-able vehicle?

    Does Colorado have 'antique plates' for vehicles of a certain vintage or older?

    Sorry for dragging this off on a tangent, I'm just curious how things work in Colorado.
     
  9. Big Ed

    Big Ed High Wheeler

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Fresno,Ca
    What is this Emissions Test you speak of?
     
  10. scout2000

    scout2000 Dreams of Cub Cadets

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,008
    Likes Received:
    937
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    DFW, TX
    As a person who has a daily driver 800a, I can share that it is a painful event that also cost the participant money, and if one has to be involved in said process, it is much better to observe remotely vs directly participating. :)

    Hopefully, once we have moved over to a hydrogen powered (fuel) economy, the govt will just decide to leave the remainder of us, and our old Binders alone. Fingers crossed. :)
     
  11. Big Ed

    Big Ed High Wheeler

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Fresno,Ca
    Surely you don’t have to smog an 800A?
     
  12. INT77345

    INT77345 Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    DENVER
    my scout has never failed emissions but odley enough i have a 1989 S 10 blazer 4.3 V6 that likes to fail. i attribute it to just a totally wore out motor. i had no codes, no black smoke. it would just always fail that idle part of the test. so i dont know if this is illegal and im not telling you to do this but what i do is get the tank about 1/4 full and poor straight pure rubbing alachol in about 20 OZ it must burn cleaner cause it gets me past the emission. again im not suggesting you do this just wanted to share
     
  13. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    17,068
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Whidbey Island, WA
    Yes you will need to use tunerpro to data log.
     
  14. Darrel

    Darrel Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    3,863
    Likes Received:
    594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    You pretty much got it. 1975 and older no emissions testing. 32 years and older qualify for Collector (antique) plates with emissions testing at initial registration and then every 5 years. 1-7 years old are exempt (but if you show up by law they have to test you). 8-11 years old OBD plug-in test. 12 years old to 1982 model year I/M 240 dyno test. 1976-1981 two speed idle sniffer test. All categories get the visual test, but the older the car the harder they tend to look. Engines swaps here are like Marijuana. Illegal at the federal level, but legal per Colorado. haha. Contrary to what has been posted here in the past fuel injection kits must have a C.A.R.B. certificate. So if you're using Bill's kit get collector plates, keep your carburetor, and don't wait until the last minute to go in for testing. By the way this only applies to gas engines in the Denver to Fort Collins area. Every so often there are proposals to change the laws for older cars, but the problem is that we're still over federal pollution standards many days out of the year and old cars have a super high failure rate. Still I wouldn't be surprised if they're able to scrap the program in 10 years give or take.








     
  15. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    17,068
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Whidbey Island, WA
    The important thing to remember is emissions in CO is by location and not state wide.
    I have many systems running in CO with out any issues.
    If your not sure, look it up. Don't rely on forums for the answer to specific emission regulations.
    The TBI system will pass tail pipe emission testing up to the 1995 standards.
    Visuals are subjective to the inspector.
    In 96 passenger vehicles went MPFI to increase standards at idle, where carbs and TBI may cause a droplet of fuel to enter the cylinder on extended idles.
    MPFI and SPFI has nothing to do with power or fuel economy, it's all about emissions.
     
  16. Darrel

    Darrel Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    3,863
    Likes Received:
    594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    The info I posted is right off the Air Care Colorado website. The guys running uncertified TBI kits in Colorado without issue are either outside the testing area, 1975 or older model year, or slipped by the inspector. It seems like the last few years they have been busting more guys, but it could just be more people are posting about it on the local forums. The worse that can happen is that you have to put your OEM stuff back on for the inspection.
     
  17. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    17,068
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Whidbey Island, WA
    So if they are out side the testing area, that would mean that testing is based on location.
    You are playing word games and will cause people to think all of CO has emission testing.
    They need to check the regulations for where they live.
     
  18. Darrel

    Darrel Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    3,863
    Likes Received:
    594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Yes, that's exactly what outside the testing area means. Not sure why you would think anyone is playing word games. In both post #7 and #14 I said in plain English that testing only applies to the front range area. Basically, from Castle Rock (just South of Denver) to Fort Collins. In fact, my exact words in post #7 were, "Emissions testing is only on the front range." Clear enough for you?

    If you have any doubt in your mind that the testing stations have/will fail people for TBI swaps say the word and I will post up the links to local forum threads and copy and paste direct quotes.



    .
     
  19. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    17,068
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Whidbey Island, WA
    Thanks for your contribution to this thread.
     
  20. Darrel

    Darrel Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    3,863
    Likes Received:
    594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    No problem, we're good.
     

Share This Page