Quieting down the Scout 800 (lots of pictures)

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Comanche Scott, Dec 3, 2011.

  1. Comanche Scott

    Comanche Scott High Wheeler

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    Planning on a 3+ day trip over the Mojave road, late March - early April (hopefully to coincide with the desert bloom). So instead of starting on the 4BT swap, I figured it would be a better idea to work on quieting down the ride. The Scout is really dependable at this point.
    With that in mind, I thought it would be cool to get some sound measurements, starting from basically stock, and seeing what kind of effect, adding deadener, and insulation / carpet, etc. can have. So I'll pick up a cheap decibel meter, and post to this thread as I go.

    Step one is to get back to stock!

    Still haven't got the top or the hood back from paint yet, so I figured I'd start with replacing the felts and window guides.
    The doors are so rusted, that a large part of the day was drilling out broken screws and bolts. I'm going to have to do some reinforcing in a few areas, as it goes back together. Fortunately these doors and tub are temporary.
    Anyway, here are some pictures from today. sanded down the rust, and painted the window frames and top trim piece. If the paint sets up well enough, I'll start installing the felts tomorrow.
    Here are some shots from today's progress:

    [​IMG]

    interesting replacement part. Actually worked very well. e-clip and washer
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Parts hanging in the heated garage to dry. I moved the windows onto the workbench for the warmth as well.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Robert JetFxr

    Robert JetFxr High Wheeler

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    If you have any issues going back with the "C" clips, LL dealers have new OEM clips. Looks good, if you are going to use a 4BT, I would scour the JYs looking for the sound insulation used on a Power Stroke fire wall and under hood. That will be your best bang for the buck as far as quite goes.
     
  3. Comanche Scott

    Comanche Scott High Wheeler

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    Thanks Robert.

    Great idea on PSD insulation. IIRC Guido used this on his build as well. It looks like there is enough room behind the 304 that I may be able to install it before the swap.

    The 4BT is going to be fun, but that won't get started until after we return from the Mojave Road trip. I plan to do some major sound deadening to the engine itself, before the install. The 6BT crowd has some very nice engine quieting accessories available. some will transfer over to the 4BT, some will not. So there will be a lot of fabricating to do.
    Just bought an HE341 Turbo, and noticed it's missing the anti-whistle ring. For the life of me, I don't understand why people take that out... :taz: So now I need to try and find one. :cornfused:

    In the mean time, I'll insulate the tub, and top. I already started building a headliner, before the top went off for body and paint work. And I also plan to insulate the hood.
    The interior will get jute pad, carpet, door panels and new body mounts, so it *should* be pretty decent.

    The meter will tell... :D

    Scott
     
  4. Robert JetFxr

    Robert JetFxr High Wheeler

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    Scott if you really want to quite down the inside, use a felt saddle pad (about an inch thick) for the firewall sound proofing on the inside. When I did the 7.3 in my Travelette that worked better than anything I tried. I did the inside of the firewall with Duramax not much help, then I did the felt saddle pads and they worked very good under the carpet and on the fire wall.
     
  5. Comanche Scott

    Comanche Scott High Wheeler

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    Awesome idea Robert, Thanks! :beer:
    I'll start checking them out. My Girlfriend's Daughter-in-law grew up on a ranch, so she'll probably have a good idea of where to get a good deal.

    What did you use to keep it tacked in place on the firewall?

    Scott
     
  6. Robert JetFxr

    Robert JetFxr High Wheeler

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    I used 10/32 screws through the existing holes that were where the factory pad used with clip things. I bought very long screws and used them to hold sound proofing on both sides, the cut them off after I had the nuts tight. I also used large fender washers on both sides to keep everything in place. For what it's worth I also used a very heavy coat of Hurculiner before I installed anything to prevent rust issues.
     
  7. Comanche Scott

    Comanche Scott High Wheeler

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    Very nice!

    Since the 800 didn't come with a firewall pad, I'll probably use nut-serts. That should be a fun project. :yes:
    Was just looking at some of the saddle pads. Man, some of those pads are beautiful. I wouldn't want to cover up the blanket with a saddle! Wow! :thumbs up:
    I may get one just to throw in the back for the dogs.

    Scott
     
  8. Comanche Scott

    Comanche Scott High Wheeler

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    So the windows have new felts and guides, and the lack of rattles makes a big difference. I also added a few tabs of foam tape behind the door inspection covers to keep them from rattling.
    Downloaded a decibel meter app for the Android smart phone (called Noise Meter) and went for a drive. The phone is mounted in a "car cradle" at the lower center of the windshield.
    I'll probably continue to use this same "meter", as it is very easy to mount and monitor.
    Noise Meter settings:
    update screen rate = 0.5 Secs
    Sampling rate = 16Bits
    Sampling speed 8k/sec
    Gain 0%
    No filter
    Reference freq 1,000Hz
    Bandwidth 500Hz
    Sitting in the office with no background noise (other than the laptop), the meter reads about 25 Db. Normal conversation from about one meter away is ~ 50 to 55 Db.
    Yelling into the mic from about a foot away I recorded a max of 87Db. Pretty sure I'm louder than that... :oops:

    At this point the Scout has a bikini top, the roll cage (padded in the driver's compartment), and for floor mats it has a heavy rubber material (like heavy duty big truck mud flaps). The bed has the same material, but it only covers about the front half. The bottom of the tub is undercoated from the factory, and the inside has a rust preventive coating that is about 0.020" thick. It has dual flow master 40s, with the pipes cut before the tail end. The exhaust bounces off the trailer hitch, and provides a bit of drone. No hood or top. BFG M/T 31x10.5 x15 @about 75%.

    Any way. Here's what it looks like so far:
    (Clear skies, no wind, upper 40s)
    Idling in the driveway averaged about 59 Db.
    In town cruising below 40mph it averaged about 62 Db.
    On the freeway cruising at the speed limits (65 & 70) it averaged about 74 Db. It would go as high as low 80's when passing a big rig, or getting passed by a 4x4 with loud tires. Otherwise it was fairly consistent.

    What I noticed:
    So with the windows up, there is not much flapping of the top. The wind pressure coming from behind the seats keeps everything fairly calm in the cabin. Heater works great :)
    It seems there is a lot more noise from the left ear, than in the center (as would be expected). Without the windows rattling I can hear the tires hum, and the "ammo box console" top rattles. Couldn't hear that before. Didn't try winding the windows down and testing. May try that next weekend, before installing the hood and top.
    I'm hoping to have the hood and the top on by next weekend. And when that is done, I'll retest. Then start adding insulation, and noise deadening material, and retest as it goes along.

    Scott
     
  9. Comanche Scott

    Comanche Scott High Wheeler

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    Well, the headliner is done for the travel top, and all installed. The headliner completely covers the interior of the top, sides, front and back. It has sound deadener, and insulation installed as well.

    [​IMG]

    Here's a thread with pictures of the headliner during construction.
    http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107078

    Today was pretty windy 15mph with gusts up to 20mph.
    Idling in the driveway was about 48dB
    In town driving was about the same (59dB).
    Freeway was also about the same 73-74dB, with max about 76dB. I think the wind had a lot to do with the lack of difference.

    So what I noticed:
    It now reminds me of riding in a late '70s / early '80s pickup. It sounds solid, and ambient outside noise is quite a bit less.
    There is a lot of whistling through the vent windows, and around the front of the top (windshield area). That noise is a close second to the exhaust noise. Which is annoying, and will get fixed before the Mojave Road trip. Then next up was road noise amplified through the floor boards. So I'll work on that too. Since this tub is pretty rotted, it's a great tub to experiment with.

    Scott
     
  10. BWOOD

    BWOOD Farmall Cub

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    Great thread. Thanks.
     
  11. db1115

    db1115 High Wheeler

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    Whats your plan for sound deadening on the tub Scott? The headliner looks really cool.
     
  12. Comanche Scott

    Comanche Scott High Wheeler

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    Thanks guys. For what it is, it took way longer than it should have.

    Davis,
    the tub will get "strategically" covered with the same peel and stick flashing material, then get carpet padding, and a dark grey outdoor nylon loop carpeting.
    The new tub will probably get sprayed with something like Lizard Skin, and the underside will get a liberal undercoat. So it should not need much in the way of the flashing material.
    There are enough materials left to do new door panels, so it will get those done, and some flashing material as well.

    Scott
     
  13. Comanche Scott

    Comanche Scott High Wheeler

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    So today we took the dogs to the lake for a swim day. We put a dog blanket down on the floor, had a cooler, and some other assorted "over-pampered-pooch-supplies".
    Same freeway, same speeds, no wind.
    dB reading on the freeway was 69-70dB, with the loudest section being a rough stretch, that bounces stuff around, and that was about 71dB.
    So, I think insulating the tub, and putting down the carpeting will definitely help. Sure helped with the exhaust noise.

    Scott
     
  14. Comanche Scott

    Comanche Scott High Wheeler

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    Today the bed was cleaned out, and Peel & Stick flashing stuff laid down. Pretty easy to do. took about 3 rolls (12.5 sq'/roll).
    Went all the way up the sides, and across the bottom.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Took a ride to see the effects.
    In town at ~ 40 is still about 60dB
    On the freeway at 70 is down to ~ 71dB

    So what I noticed:
    Even though the dB is down by 3dB at freeway speed, it doesn't really seem like the noise level is less. This could be because I haven't been able to do this back to back. Fact is, it is down by about 4dB.
    That said, the noise used to seem like it was 360* surrounding. And now, it seems like it is louder from the cab portion. Like the "fader" adjustment on a radio was biased towards the front.
    The exhaust note did not seem quite as droning. The tone is slightly more muffled.
    I also hear the tires a lot more in town now. I used to think they were fairly quiet. :cornfused:

    The Peel & Stick is very reflective, so I am interested to see what happens with the jute padding, and carpet.
    Then I'll get started on the cab portion. :)

    Scott
     
  15. TUK101

    TUK101 Farmall Cub

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    The jute padding and carpet will help a bunch because it will absorb some of the noise and help to keep it from bouncing around. It will also help to absorb some of the vibration.
     
  16. Thomas

    Thomas Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    ---Only one problem with jute backing is that it doesn't play well with moisture. I would opt for some patio if not auto carpet. The deadening mat you have should be enough for padding already. ~edit~ sorry, I see now you only used metal-backed vent/duct tape ~/edit~

    ---Some 10" subs with slight delay will help too... lol.
     
  17. joelweb

    joelweb Farmall Cub

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    Great thread.

    I'd also consider putting some hood insulation on the underside of the transmission tunnel. All the Scouts I have owned send a lot of noise through the tranny tunnel and cover.

    The wind noise is a tough one to combat on all Scouts. New seals and properly set doors should help.
     
  18. Comanche Scott

    Comanche Scott High Wheeler

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    Great input guys. :rockon:

    the right name for this stuff is called Peel and Seal. It is a flashing material. It is comprised of a 40mil rubberized asphalt adhesive back, two layers of a polymer film, and the top is aluminum composite foil. It has received some great reports for "sound proofing". And at $17 for 12.5 sq' is pretty cheap.
    I bought this stuff at Lowe's. Here's the website:
    http://www.lowes.com/pd_154017-81326-PS625_0__?catalogId=10051&productId=1018733&UserSearch=peel+%26+seal&Ntt=peel+%26+seal&N=0&langId=-1&storeId=10151&rpp=24

    I found a place that has the jute felt pad 40oz in a 3/8" for a reasonable price, with free shipping. So I am going to try it for the bed, and sections of the cab that the fitted carpet doesn't cover (like the firewall, and kick panels). I have a Nylon loop indoor/outdoor carpet to lay in the back.

    There is a carpet place that makes a replacement carpet for the Scout 80/800, and for an extra $59 will include a "Mass Back" backing material, that is a thick sound deadening rubber type material.

    So those are the next steps. Probably be a week or so before the felt pad gets here.

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  19. Thomas

    Thomas Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    ---Mastic products used to emit nauseous, if not toxic, fumes but just from a glance it seems the company out of Aurora (home of Wayne's World! Party on! Excellent!) has pretty much addressed this issue with most of their line. I didn't do extensive research, I would look for MSDSs, especially in the emissivity of such gasses during exposure to heat/flame... and ensure good* heat shields are in place by exhaust.

    ---As for the jute; Jute is a vegetable and you must make sure the adhesive that bonds the fibers is water resistant... even though the jute isn't. Wouldn't want you to have your project fall apart, but more concerned with black mold under your carpet because you got caught in the rain one day and it seeped into a seam/corner.

    ---Wish you the best on this. I couldn't imagine a Scout so quiet that I could differentiate the sound of a cricket and body panels rubbing.
     
  20. cv_scout

    cv_scout Farmall Cub

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    I am also in the process of quieting down my scout. It started as a mission to cut down the exhaust fumes coming into the cab (the lady wasn't so fond of those). Using a good seam sealer to touch up any holes/cracks in the firewall and tub before installing the insulation made a surprising difference. I also lined the bottom of the transmission tunnel cover and made a gasket for it.

    Working on my headliner now so appreciate the thread.

    Cheers,
    Casey
     

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