New (to us) Treasure at La Casa De Agua

Discussion in 'IH Scouts & Trucks of Oregon' started by M. Mayben, Sep 14, 2007.


  1. M. Mayben

    M. Mayben High Wheeler

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    Most of ya know how I git all watereyed when the subject of "old school tools" comes up when jawwin' about old school crapballs...

    Our own Wrenchman (Steve) got tired of me whinin' about needin' a scope and exhaust gas analyzer so's we could fix a BUNCHA old junk that club folks try and use as DD, etc. So he came up with a Peerless Pulsar engine analyzer...circa 1969??? Was purchased and used by the legacy version of Kaiser Brake and Alignment in Eugene (where Steve plays for a livin'). Then it was retired for a later model Sun Electric machine which Steve ALSO has hidden away and won't show me! He figgers this rig will be a great addition to our ability to keep club junkers going awhile longer.

    I remember these machines from the old days, very full-featured but it's advantage is that it's completely PORTABLE and modular in design. Literally throw the pods inna car and drive down the road with a helper to read the numbers! So this setup is gonna make MANY roadtrips/housecalls as needed.

    Included was a box of ALL manuals for the system, along with at least TWO sets of all test leads, battery load banks, etc.!!!! In fact, inside the analyzer component case, was a set of NEW test leads (never unwrapped), along with a triple pak of "C" cell batteries still sealed from that era!

    It was purty nasty, but two days of spitpolish has brought everything to life. Both of the exhaust gas analyzer "senders" had the batteries left in 'em about 20+ years ago, so the battery holders are destroyed, a trip to Radio Shack or Norvac Electronics will fix that. But ALL the multiple sets of test leads are functional after verifying for both continuity and resistance.

    So I just finished hooking up and running a test set on the S80 crapball, the numbers on the analog analyzer line right up with the scope pattern data!!! Talk about flashback city!!! This takes me back to 1967, the first time I EVER ran Sun machine while in college.

    I used these thangs for years, and even sold Allen analyzers and Bar 90 smog machines for a year, I still think the Allan Smartscope is the FINEST example of an analyzer that could be used on both old school and modern vehicles. And Jeff Ismail has one of those stuffed in the corner of his shop where it needs to be USED!!!

    But the Peerless rig is PERFECT for our needs...it's ENTIRELY portable! Only drawback is it won't do a TRUE "cylinder balance" test and and some of the other tests needed for a complete diagnosis. But the scope which reads/verifies actual ignition coil voltage output at EACH firing, and the exhaust gas analyzer which GREATLY simplifies carb dial-in will get a heavy workout around here!

    The only drawback to this scope is the inability for it to display a "raster" pattern, the second most useful thang IMHO. But maybe onea you electron wizards out there knows how to trick it into doing so? The unit has both a 20KV and 40KV scale so it'll look at near any "high performance" ignition coil in use today.

    No doubt we'll have a "diagnostic lane" set up at the Binder Bee next year showcasing OLD shop equipment (this ain't the only stuff I got) hooked up to old school rigs!

    Here's some pics in two different sets..."before" cleanup, after cleanup, and in actual use on the S80 (notice the 70 degree dwell display on the analog meter, achieved by doubling the actual reading of 35 degrees, that's a Delco distributor it's hooked to). The scope also reads EXACTLY 70 degrees though the camera ain't fast enuff to freeze the pattern to show it completely.

    You kids git in line for a REAL tune-up (as opposed to what passes for same today).
     

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  2. M. Mayben

    M. Mayben High Wheeler

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    Here's the rest of the pics...
     

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  3. Russ McLean

    Russ McLean High Wheeler

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    WOW Great find
     
  4. Greg R

    Greg R Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Glad for ya Mike!
    You been need'in one a lon-n-n-g time.
     
  5. WRENCH MAN

    WRENCH MAN Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    You're welcome!!!
    That thing sure did shine up all purdy!
    Now we can all get the "junk iron" runnin like them swiss watches! (or tune them to pass emitions, then make them run right!?):cool2:
     
  6. Gun Line

    Gun Line Farmall Cub

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    Wow Mike, that's sure gonna look good in the living room. All you need now is one of those vacuum tube testers that used to be by the front door of the local Thrifty Drug!! I'll bringing my Scout and my Atwater Kent to you for sure.
     
  7. M. Mayben

    M. Mayben High Wheeler

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    Now the wayback machine is going Lou!

    The Southland Ice Corp. (as it was known in the 50's/60's) was a Dallas, Tejas institution (parent of 7-11 stores, both corporate and franchise). Ya just drove up and an attendant ran to the car and took yore order for whatever they sold (mainly ice, dairy, and beer if you was inna wet precinct). Curb service just like Prince's Drive-in, Keller's, A&W, Whataburger, etc.

    In order to git folks to start actually coming into the store...they put them old-tyme tube testers right up front! I'd scrounge the neighborhood trash cans and find old vacuum tubes so I could take 'em down to the 7-11 and play with the machine!! Even took the cardboard back off onena Pop's "sample" TV sets (he was a road lizard for General Electric) and pulled all the tubes out so I could make a 7-11 trip (bubblegum baseball cards were a penny apiece). This was in the days when most TV programming consisted of only test patterns. That TV never lit up again...he never knew I'd scruud it over, just took it back to the warehouse for an exchange! I think I was 6?

    Dam I luvved playin' with that machine!
     
  8. M. Mayben

    M. Mayben High Wheeler

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    Continuing in the old tool/shop gear museum theme...

    Here's some more junk.

    This stuff was gifted to me last year by the son-in-law of the original owner (he's my neighborMikes's FIL). The guy was a local mechanic (Eugene) and for many years was the mechanic for Sam Bond's Garage. For a time, Sam Bond was the local Lincoln dealer. The place is still there...only now it's a popular acoustic music venue/club.

    First up is a Carter Carburetor master tool kit. It obviously hadn't been opened since last used in the 60's??? The jpeg shows what I found when I popped the lid! In addition to the tools...it was stuffed full of takeoff and new carb parts, leftovers from carb kit jobs. In fact, ya can see a NEW inlet needle/seat for a Holley 1904 (common IH application) layin' on top of the pile! Also includes several early Snap On tools from the 30's/40's along with other brand names from back then.

    No paperwork with this set...but I did find a complete inventory of it's original contents posted somewhere on the i-net. It's been cleaned up and rests in the place of honor on my carb bench!
     

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  9. Carl Wiese

    Carl Wiese Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Sweet scores Mike!! I can't wait to see it work. We may have to have an IH test and tune day. Bench Racin' and BBQin' can't be beat!!

    As for the carb tool kit, honestly do you have any idea what all those tools for? I can only place a few of them.
     
  10. M. Mayben

    M. Mayben High Wheeler

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    And here's the rest of the "Sam Bond" collection...

    One of the ORIGINAL Sun Electric "VAT" charging system testers (forerunner of the VERY popular VAT20 and VAT40 units). Includes the ORIGINAL manual shipped with the unit dated May of 1952. Don't have the shunt for this one, but the shunt included with the Peerless unit works with ANY oldschool charging system analyzer. In fact, I've used this one several times, the test leads all need to be replaced and the boys at Philbin Electric in Portland have the original type materials on hand.

    The other unit is a Sun companion tool, a Model GA portable Dwell/Tach instrument. Since carbon cell batteries were resident in this unit over 50+ years, the battery compartment is rotted out, but "repairable" with a modern battery holder update. No actual manual for this one but I do have the ORIGINAL Sun Electric catalog from January 1953 which shows and describes the entire Sun line of equipment.

    Along with this set, came a copy of the original Sun "Instruction Manual" for the very FIRST analyzer used in the carfixxin' biz the "Master Model" Sun Motor Tester. This unit was an assemblage of all the Sun instrumentation available contained in a single cabinet, but was BEFORE the development of the CRT/scope unit. The original release date of this piece of equipment was circa 1938, copyright on my copy (an updated version) is 1944.

    I remember that piece of equipment well. The old German blacksmith who was my mentor regarding carfixxin' in the early 60's had one in his shop, he showed me how to use it by hooking up my '30 Model A Ford (first car).

    As may be seen in the jpeg, this equipment was sold out of the Portland branch of Sun Electric, some of ya may remember that operation???

    IIRC, Sun Electric was acquired by Snap-On during their MAJOR growth spurt in 1992.

    Just a few weeks ago...my "Sam Bond" source brought me some more of his long-departed FIL's hand tools, including a homebrew distributor wrench made from two or three pieces of Snap-On stuff brazed together.

    Anyone else around here got STUFF they wanna share with the crew?
     

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    Last edited: Sep 15, 2007
  11. M. Mayben

    M. Mayben High Wheeler

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    Naw Carl...most of those gauges, etc. are for REALLY old Carter pieces! I'm sure it would very valuable to folks who deal in Carter fuel systems resto work, but I assure ya...this thang ain't for sale!

    However, I HAVE used some of the stuff in Holley work. Most all of it is specific calibration gauges/templates for float level/float drop, metering rod adjustment, control rod tweeking, etc. And some go/nogo gauges for throttle/choke shaft bores, drivers for adjusting screws, etc.

    There ARE some specfic tools used on the AFB which I'm prepping for Pop! That'll be the first time any of this stuff has been used onna Carter carb in maybe 30+ years according to my "Sam Bond" guy (and he's 76!!).

    So I guess chewin' the fat about this kinda stuff is timely since Pop's gonna rejuvenate the AFB for the Rambleall.

    Once we get the "next big deal" carb done up and yawl git the beer can manifold on the Rambleall, the Peerless rig will make it's FIRST guest appearance at Pop's Place and will compare YORE fresh motor to his TIRED Ramblermotor, side-by-side! The exhaust gas analyzer is what I've been talkin' to ya about for nearly a year!!!
     
  12. Lyle Wiese

    Lyle Wiese High Wheeler

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    Mike,

    All I can sit here and say is WOW!! Very impressive! I remember we talked about the old Allen's. I'm not familiar with Peerless, but if you say it's good, then it's good. Actually, sounds just perfect for what all of us are working on. I can hear the engines smoothing out already.

    Also, a round of applause :clap: to Wrenchman Steve. It is fortunate he knows the value of the old school equipment.

    I'm willing to share whatever I have with the crew, but none of it is as impressive as what you have.

    Lyle
     
  13. WRENCH MAN

    WRENCH MAN Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    WHAT!??? we're guna fix it RIGHT!?:smartass:
    Hope that's an Edlebrock Performer you're put'n on there!? It should run good with that little bitty AFB on there! an Mike get's done fidlle'n with that new (to us) scope on it!
    Or you could step up and put this on there!, an Edlebrock torquer with a 750 AFB on it!
    no?

    Here's a cup'l pitures of THE "Performance" setup! and with an appropriate air filtration setup!
     

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  14. M. Mayben

    M. Mayben High Wheeler

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    OK...got the exhaust gas analyzer working last nite.

    Both of the sensor boxes have rotten battery compartments, going to town today and find some replacements. But I milked one to life to be able to test the unit. Used a Holley vacuum secondary actuator spring (under the actuator top) for the spring in the battery holder.

    Don't have the manual for this component, but it's a simple device to use if ya know how this stuff is supposed to work/hook up. Ending up pulling the meter/panel out of the case and cleaning the pushbutton switch contacts all around...ANY slight amount of resistance across those contacts KILLS the unit as the exhaust probe runs off only n=3 "C" cell batteries! I did have to re-work the tailpipe probe (due to the deteriorating effects of exhaust gases). Hooked it to the S80, ran it 20 minutes minimum for a full warmup (that's IMPERATIVE!), same for the tailpipe probe/sensor, it needs to be fully warmed up.

    Then started playing with idle mixture, etc, the unit responds exactly as it should. Also proves out that the S80 runs REAL clean for a motor of that era! At a steady 2000rpm "cruise" setting in neutral, the carb mixture (running on the main jet) was PERFECT, telling me the main jet in the 1904 is exactly right, even onna 196 for which it was never intended. And idle mixture is EXACTLY where it should be and corresponds with manifold vacuum level (ya GOTTA disable the fuel pump vacuum segment that feeds the wipers when dealing with one of these carbs). Working with a 4 banger with a single plane intake and a single barrel carb is EXCELLENT for demo'ing stuff like this!!!!

    Next up is rigging one of the battery shunts for use onna side terminal battery, and then testing each of the "load" cells used for battery testing, one of 'em appears to have NEVER been used.
     
  15. M. Mayben

    M. Mayben High Wheeler

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    Steve...that manifold lashup of yore's would be GREAT stickin' through the hood of Lyle's Rambleall!!!! Especially rigged up with a Pro Stock-type air scoop!

    Turns out...the AFB we're doing for Lyle is a OEM version from some Ford application, tag is still in place. It'sa 525cfm and is not of the "Competition Series" unit like you have though virtually identical in design. I'm sure Lyle will be talkin' with ya about the manifold selection for the Rambler motor he's messin' with. I'm snakin' a kit for that carb today.

    Toddj has one of those "Competition" series carbs that came off his 345, it also needs a severe re-freshening as it had set for many years with fuel in it. It worked well enuff on his SOD project to git the thang runnin' but we swapped onna 4150 Holley to make it a sometimes DD. It's sitting now over the hills at his hunt camp but definitely needs to be dialed in for altitude.
     
  16. Lyle Wiese

    Lyle Wiese High Wheeler

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    No, I'm not doing any body work on the hood. ;)

    I'm looking at the Edelbrock 2131 (non-EGR) manifold. I'm sure the 525 AFB will work just fine. I just want it to start and run like it should. Mike's "replacement" loaner carb was a great improvement over what I had with the new 2300, but it still isn't right. It will start and run, but I have to let it warm up before it will go down the road. The only thing left to replace is the intake, so it will get a new 2131 when the funds are available. Need to pay for last week's trip to Alaska. (The trip was worth it.)

    It appears Smucks has the best price around here. $190 The best price I found online was $195. With the new manifold and Mike's "new" test equipment, the Rambleall should run better than new.

    Lyle
     
  17. M. Mayben

    M. Mayben High Wheeler

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    And Bubba snaked the AFB carb kit today...so it'll move to the "in progress" stage tomorrow!

    Do ya have the choke cap and clamp ring for that AFB carb Lyle? That appears to be all that's missing. Brooks has the choke caps hanging on the wall now, I've got some extra clamp rings so that's not an issue. I hate to rob one from that 'lectric choke kit I'm gonna "purchase" from ya but I do have the one that's on the carb I just took off Carl's rig that I owe him for also! The carb I traded to Carl uses a different choke kit (but the cap is the same), so the choke that you and he put on that carb is of no use to either of ya now.

    Whatever...the next time ya see the AFB, it'll have been RUN on my beater motor and checked out on the gas sniffer! Then the whole shebang will levitate up to yore place for a repeat on the real deal.

    I got some battery boxes for the sniffer sensors, those will be mounted up tomorrow and then tested on the beatermotor.

    By the way...spent the afternoon with Dave Winsett...he DOES remember you and Linda from H.S.!!!! Said Linda was the QUEEN of Home Ec!!!! When I told him yawl were responsible for the VAST improvement in the landscape around here...he said..."that figures" (he's complemented yore work every time he's been here)!! More to come regarding Dave for the rest of the crew around here!
     
  18. Lyle Wiese

    Lyle Wiese High Wheeler

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    No, I don't have the choke cap and ring for the AFB that I know of. Just get whatever it needs and I will be happy to reimburse you for it. It may be around here, but if it is, I don't have any idea where. Hmmmm, wonder if I used it on the new Edelbrock in the Great White? Can't remember.

    Glad to hear the new test equipment is working. That will be a great addition to the tool bag.

    Yep, Linda was and still is the QUEEN of Home Ec. Lucky for me 'cause my cooking skills are slim to none. Any chance Dave will be able to make it to a meeting? It would be great to connect with him again.

    Lyle
     
  19. WRENCH MAN

    WRENCH MAN Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    That'll be this one (see the photo below), and I wouldn't pay that kind of money for that manifold, good used ones can be had for about half of that, I may know of another one that might be available!, I call the guy tomorrow!
     

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  20. M. Mayben

    M. Mayben High Wheeler

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    Got Lyle's new-to-him Rambleall Carter AFB done up today. Still need to go snake an electric choke cap. Once the choke cap is installed, then this mixer will git slammed on the beater for a test fire and run up on the exhaust gas analyzer. Hope to do that Satidy.

    It ain't as purdy as it could be, somebody had previously glass beaded the thang which was the REAL reason it was scruud. But it should be fine for a Rambler. Dave Winsett came by tonite and gave it his stamp of approval.

    I'll take some pics of the analyzer numbers so yawl can see what it looks like.
     

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