New suspension and new lean.

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by ExpedTeeAll, Apr 7, 2020.


  1. ExpedTeeAll

    ExpedTeeAll Farmall Cub

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    Question- I have new Skyjacker Softride springs all around, CPT kits on both ends of front springs, plus new Bilstein shocks- and it seems I have a driver's side lean- maybe up to .5 to 1 inch or more. (73' 1110 Travelall) I can tell by the gaps between the rear fender tire clearance- plus on flat ground the body noticeably tilts- even a few admirers have made comments about my "spring sag" which sucks since they are brand new. I chose Skyjacker and Bilstein because I thought they are good quality and certainly more expensive than others I could have gone with. Both were installed about 6 weeks ago, but the truck was immediately parked in garage and has sat there (with obvious lean) ever since while I worked on the fuel lines. I just drove it home (100 miles) and it still leans.

    Bent frame maybe? Will it level out over time?
     
  2. Darrel

    Darrel Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Body bushings are good? With it sitting on the ground, loosen all the bolts to finger tight, jump up and down on the bumpers half a dozen times, re-torque. If it still leans you can try swapping front springs side to side. When the springs are out stand them up on the eyes side-by-side and see if they have the same free arch. If all that fails frame shop, send the springs back, or have a local shop re-arch them.
     
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  3. Ron A

    Ron A High Wheeler

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    This problem was prevalent enough in Scouts that the factory would use a spacer. Don't know about the Travelall, but it would be easy enough to make one and adjust as needed. If you swap springs side to side and the lean goes with the springs, as Darrel suggested, get the springs fixed. If it stays the same after swapping then it has probably something to do with the truck. A spacer might be the cheap way out depending on how bad it is.
     
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  4. ExpedTeeAll

    ExpedTeeAll Farmall Cub

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    OKay I'll try that.
     
  5. Matt O'Bryan

    Matt O'Bryan High Wheeler

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    Is the fuel tank full? Travelalls are particularly heavy on the drivers side between the fuel tank, drivers weight, and assorted extra weight on that side. Skyjacker springs probably don't help, either. When I had my Alcan's built, they had a specific left and right side to counteract that tendancy.

    Matt
     
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  6. Darrel

    Darrel Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    If you go with spacers use the type that bolt to the spring pack and preferably extend past the u-bolts.
     
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  7. scout2000

    scout2000 Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    stupid spacer question. I'm aware that many Binders shipped from IH with spacers.

    For custom stuff with aftermarket suspensions+springs, is there a source for various sized spacers? Or is everyone just fab'ing something up?
     
  8. ExpedTeeAll

    ExpedTeeAll Farmall Cub

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    Oddly, I just pulled both tanks to run new fuel lines, which is why it sat leaning for a month in the garage. I first noticed the lean with the aux fuel tank full, which is on the passenger side, and the left side main tank empty. I might have to go to a 6" and ditch the rear blocks so I have room to adjust.
     
  9. ExpedTeeAll

    ExpedTeeAll Farmall Cub

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    As above, I think im gonna have to go with running a 6" instead of the 4" spring if I want to play with the spacer height. Curiously, do you know where I can find the aforementioned bolt-on types?

    Current spacer situation:

    20200406_142345.jpg
     
  10. Darrel

    Darrel Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    No use leveling these springs if you're going replace them. If you're just doing forest service roads (?) then blocks are ok. Trails like Holy Cross, Blanca, etc. I would want to ditch them.
     
  11. Matt O'Bryan

    Matt O'Bryan High Wheeler

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    http://ww.offroaddesign.com/catalog/Zero Rates.htm
    Not sure why you think you need to go higher overall just to correct the lean. Put a zero rate on the low side of the front spring and put a 1" shorter block on the high side of the rear. After, of course, you've eliminated all the other possible things that could be inducing a lean.
    6" springs is going to get very high, very fast. Sometimes I think my 4" Alcans are too much, I've got plenty of room for 36"s (once I wear out the current short tires) and you can't run much over a 36" tire on a T'all anyhow, the rear wheel wells are just the wrong shape.

    Matt
     
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  12. Matt O'Bryan

    Matt O'Bryan High Wheeler

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    Two other thoughts. Since you have a GM front axle, make sure that the lean isn't built into the axle itself. Measure from the top of each spring pad to the centerline or bottom of the axle tube. IIRC, I had to rejigger the the driver side pad on my GM 44 to get everything kosher. If you do want to eliminate the rear blocks (With Skyjacker springs, I'd suggest it), it's pretty simple to do a shackle flip on the back axle. When I did mine, all it took was cutting the stock rivets out of the spring hanger, swapping them around, and bolting them back up with G8 bolts. I also replaced the stock rear shackles with Dodge 250 shackles, which bolt right in, but are about 1- 1 1/2 inches longer. The stock tension shackle is certainly the better way to orient them, but they just aren't long enough to let higher arch springs really work. You can't put longer shackles in the stock hanger, the floor and body mounts interfere. The Dodge shackle is long enough to let the springs flex, and the combination of shackle flip and extra length compensates almost exactly for the height lost with the blocks.

    Matt
     
  13. ExpedTeeAll

    ExpedTeeAll Farmall Cub

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    I wouldn't want to go higher, but I just assumed that if I have a 4" spring in the rear now with a 2.5 inch block, I could go to a 6" spring and eliminate the block, which would leave more room for the kind of "shimming" by using the zero rate plus a 1" block (per your suggestion) to correct a lean. I am happy with the current lift height and the 295 tires- plus I think the 11.5 tire width is perfect.
     
  14. ExpedTeeAll

    ExpedTeeAll Farmall Cub

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    okay that's helpful. So I have plans to change the rear axle to a GM 12 bolt to match the lug and width of my 10 bolt corp front axle. Per you valuable point above, perhaps I should wait to make any adjustments until the axle is installed.
     
  15. Matt O'Bryan

    Matt O'Bryan High Wheeler

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    I thought you meant going to 6" springs all around, whoops...
    The issue with going to the 6" rear springs is the stock shackles. Springs with that much more arch over stock NEED longer shackles to flex and work properly. Best case with the short shackles is that it rides much worse than it needs to. Worst case, you trash the main leaf by forcing it to work against the shackle. The longer shackle gives the springs room to "breathe" when they are compressed.

    Matt
     
  16. ExpedTeeAll

    ExpedTeeAll Farmall Cub

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    Okay understood. So, would a rear shackle flip then give me about 2" more, then I could remove/shorten the blocks? Do I flip shackles on each end of the rear spring, or just the back one? I know there are threads here about the shackle flip. (I could research these questions, but since we're discussing it already...)
     
  17. Matt O'Bryan

    Matt O'Bryan High Wheeler

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    Yeah, you end up with 2" of lift, plus or minus a bit. Here's what the shackle flip looks like on my T'all:
    KIMG0187_01_BURST1000187_COVER.JPG KIMG0182.JPG KIMG0185_02_BURST1000185.JPG

    Please excuse the glare on the tape measure :( Anyhow, you can see how it all works out. There is a bunch of give and take, but the end result is that the rear eye of the leaf spring is about 4-5" lower than it would be in the stock position, which is basically level with the top of the frame. Since you are only lifting one end of the springs, the axle lift is approximately half that, so 2-2.5". It should be noted that this will mess with your pinion angle, but if you are putting a new axle in, it's childs play to set it where you want it.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Ron A

    Ron A High Wheeler

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    The old leaf spring pile and a cut off wheel. Just add to the pack if you need to level things up. IHPA sells the factory type spacer also.
     
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  19. ExpedTeeAll

    ExpedTeeAll Farmall Cub

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    Okay cool. I'm gonna wait then on the new axle. I think I need to replace the shackle bushings though. My spring eye bushings are new, but the shackle bushing is pretty cracked. I guess I need to find one- maybe IHPA will know. Gonna have to research setting pinon angle a bit also before I get into the replacement. Thanks for your help.
     
  20. Darrel

    Darrel Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Shackle flip is a great idea. With longer shackles you may not even need blocks. Some of the aftermarket perches will get you more height as well. Ruff Stuff perches are fairly tall.
     

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