Need more juice! This a good high amp alternator?

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by IH64Scout, Feb 6, 2012.


  1. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/10122/10002/-1?parentProductId=754001

    After I put the dual cooling fans on my terra the gm one wire off the shelf at autozone just cannot keep up. I have dual group 31s so they are slow to charge back up. I haven't turned on my heat or attempted to use the winch, but with the headlights on and the fans running driving down the road the volt gauge won't climb past 11.5. Looking at the one I listed it puts out 140 amps at 850 rpm, which will be perfect for a diesel. Plus its got special fans that will help it cool idling down a trail all day long. Anyone use this one before? Thanks!
     
  2. Eric VanBuren

    Eric VanBuren Lives in an IH Dealership

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    It just looks like a overpriced 1 wire CS series alternator. A 1 Wire alternator is going to have problems with a dual battery set up unless you have an 8ga minimum main power feed that is only about 1' long.
     
  3. abinder

    abinder Farmall Cub

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    I dont understand the last post-----------------it looks to be based off of the 22si delco that has seen class 8 truck use for years until the pad mount alternators came into play.Batteries on them usually are at least feet away from the alternator and they all run a minimum of 3 batteries----------------------------personally I would think a 22si in the 140 amp range should do the job okay and can be found just needing brushes in about every semi truck repairs scrap bins due to no core value.the case is identical to the case used on cadillac cars as well as the brush packs are similar after you get away from the swinging arm style of brush pack assembly
     
  4. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    I have a 10 gauge feeding to the 0 gauge wire that is on the starter lug to the battery.
     
  5. Erik Morton

    Erik Morton High Wheeler

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    10 g, aye? I think you found your problem. That has a resistance of about 1 mohm/foot. May not sound like much but pushing 100 Amps through 10 foot will cause a 1 Volt drop between your alternator and starter. I don't know how long your run is but if you are increasing your alternator's ampacity. You must increase your harness's ampacity too.

    What kind of fans are your running? Still your loads don't seem to add up to enough to be concerned about w/o using two SPAL ultra performance 11" fans, which draw significant current.

    Maybe one of your batteries is out of shape perhaps with a shorted cell. I don't see how the loads you listed drawing close to 60 Amps once the batteries are charged. I hope your fans are on a thermostat. Mine seldom run this time of year.

    Might your volt meter not be accurate?

    Just some ideas to think about.
    Erik
     
  6. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    There is about 3 feet of 10 g to the starter, then 0g to the batteries behind the bulkhead on my terra. The old batteries got weak, the old alt couldn't keep up with winch and low batteries and burned up. I have a pair of good batteries from my f250 in it now that are good. The fans are dual spal 11" low profile fans. The sensor is set at 185, but the truck always runs at 195-200 (192 t stat I think) so once its at temp the fans always run.
     
  7. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Farmall Cub

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    I was just reading about one wire alternators.
    They may or may not keep up.
    One issue is the power wire too small gauge.
    Another is the regulator is not remote sensing so you can get voltage drops.

    http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/onewire-threewire.shtml

    If the alternator has enough working amps, then put a real big wire to the main electric buses so you don't get voltage drops.
    I have 4 gauge long wire runs on the 2 engines that have these one wire alternators.
    DC power drops off fast when the wires are too small and happens with short distances of wire.

    If you get a remote sensing standard regulator, you can make these work as 3 wire alternators.
     
  8. Erik Morton

    Erik Morton High Wheeler

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    In my 10 foot example above I didn't even start considering the terminals and cleanliness of the terminations both of which will affect the voltage drop. As it is only three feet, new 10g may not drop too much, if new (old wire likely has broken strands), but I'd rather see nice new 8 or even 6 AWG used.

    SPAL low profile fans should not draw too much. They have some impressive fans, I think they're called "Ultra Performance", which can exceed 40 Amps each. They are probably much deeper than your low profiles. My cheap little 10" fans draw between 5 and 8 amps each depending on the load and keep my 304 happily cool. Still haven't heard anything that would challenge a basic 10SI as long as your winch is off.

    If they are running continuously, you are not saving any power with electric fans. You should find a 195F switch.

    How are you measuring voltage? "driving down the road" idicates to me you have an installed volt meter. What is the voltage driving down the road before the engine has warmed and the fans are on? What is the voltage before you start your engine? Now disconnect 1 battery, what is the off voltage? Reconnect and disconnect the other battery, what is the off voltage? Put the batteries on a trickle charger for as long as possible and repeat their checks. All of these are indications of your electrical system's health.

    That mad electrical reference is great information too.
     
  9. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    i'm going to run a 4 gauge wire from my alternator to the batteries tomorrow and ground the alternator directly to the main ground block i have on the engine block to make sure it's 100% connected. now if it still reads low what alternator should i get? and is this the kit to wire a 3 wire in? http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/alt-1.shtml :confused:

    i installed 2 NEW Duralast group 31 950CCA batteries and checked voltage when started, the gauge reads 12ish at idle, headlights it goes under 12, fans kicked on it's barley 11. this was on the gauge, didn't check with a meter yet.
     
  10. Eric VanBuren

    Eric VanBuren Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Yes that will work but you can buy the connector at your favorite auto parts store for about $2 and instead of a diode install a warning light a 194 bulb works nicely that is what GM used.

    If you want a higher output the 94 amp 12si is available at your favorite parts store #7294-12 is the Lester number that if they don't use they can interchange.
     
  11. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    ok, does that article show how to wire it in? i'll see how my voltage looks after i upgrade the wiring.
     
  12. Erik Morton

    Erik Morton High Wheeler

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    Low voltage at idle is fine. You could consider smaller drive pulley. Previously you discussed going down the road. Are you expecting to sit idling for hours at a time? I guess extended winch sessions would need the extra battery. Give her some juice regularly, to charge them back up.
     
  13. ruderunner

    ruderunner High Wheeler

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    I don't see where he has an inadequate amount of charging. He has NO charging. Find out if the alt is putting power out at the output stud. Needs to be over 12.6, ideally 14 or so, not over 16 for anylength of time.

    Can you full field oneof these like the older ones?
     
  14. Longbow327

    Longbow327 Farmall Cub

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    Go get the alternator tested at the parts store and have them test 3 times. I had charging issues that were intermittant on the test machine so you might just need to rebuild the alternator (kits are about $10). Smaller pulley was brought up and that should help as well once you upgrade the wire.
     
  15. fredsterra

    fredsterra Y-Block King

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    DITTO: Also a smaller pulley will help at lower engine speeds. Also a most of the time Leese Neville 2500JB has better charging at lower engine rpms. If you go junk yard searching find an old Ford or Int. Ambulance with a 7.3 or 6.9 since they spend so much time at idle and low engine speeds they will keep up better on the trail.
     
  16. Eric VanBuren

    Eric VanBuren Lives in an IH Dealership

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    What happened to the factory wiring for the proper 3 wire set up?

    Basically you run a wire from the #2 terminal on the alt to where ever your main battery connects to the system, IH did it at the starter solenoid. If you've done the Ford relay upgrade you'd connect it at the stud the battery cable connects to there. Or you could run it to the battery itself

    The #1 wire should go to a Ignition power source, ie on when in the run position. This circuit needs a current limiting device, in series, of at least 10 ohms. IH did it with a resistor wire, GM did it with a 194 light bulb (the idiot light). You can use a diode like in that kit, not sure of the best value for a diode since that is not a preferred way to go in my opinion.
     
  17. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    The truck idles alot wheeling. It was good before. I replaced the old alternator when it failed. Never had an issue with the pully size before. The old wiring is gone, rewired the whole truck, its in my terra with the 6.9.
     
  18. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    well thanks for talking me into the 94amp 12SI alt guys. i ordered one for a '84 camaro 5.0 ho which had the correct clocking for the 6.9 bracket i made up, it's a wee bit tight on the valvecover. i got a 10 ohm resistor from radioshack and wired it up as you said, then ran a 4 gauge battery cable to the starter lug (which backfeeds the 0 g to the dual batteries). after a run down the road it's the first time i EVER saw the volt gave break 13.5 volts. it holds at a steady 14+ down the road, and with the fans, heater, and lights all on it it stays above 13.5 (before it struggled at 11-12. great upgrade and i'll definately do it to the rest of the trail rigs i build! :punk:

    thanks!
    -Jon :beer:
     

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