Most Complete Champagne I Have Seen

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Randall Barringer, Aug 13, 2019.


  1. Randall Barringer

    Randall Barringer Y-Block King

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  2. TorqueMonster1

    TorqueMonster1 Farmall Cub

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    Sweet Scout.. I'd say that one would be best cleaned up really good and left alone. I wouldn't restore it, They're Only Original Once! Mark
     
  3. scout2000

    scout2000 Y-Block King

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    disclaimer - this post is not, and not intended to be a personal attack on eBay seller t0dtrip0, with 0 feedback.

    I am, however, going to push forward with "sticking my foot in my mouth". This may be a nice vehicle, this, to be determined by the person who can fully inspect this vehicle in person and examine it for rust, previous body damage, etc. Stuff you can't tell half way across the country from pictures.

    There are just a few flags here that are bothering me.

    Starting at the back end picture(s), the license plate placement is off, and the current position is a PO mod. Not a big deal, just a flag.

    Still at the back, someone has added backup lights. A Scout 80 should not have back up lights. The ones on this vehicle are the plastic ones from a late model 800a and 800b. Scout 800's would have had the chromed metal and glass lens backup lights.

    Next, and still at the rear, is the bumper. Qualifier, I'm not 100% sure on this, so I hope someone else can help me here. That rear bumper looks very much like a common Scout bumper, but I can't say that I've ever seen those bumperette's before.

    Referencing Jim Allens' Scout Encylopedia, caption under pic on page 217, I would expect a Champagne to have chrome bumpers.

    Moving to the vehicle sides, the next thing that bothers me are the side running lights/turn signals. Scout 80's never had these. Early 800a's would have had the round reflectors, but, assuming that these are IH Scout items, those side running lights would be correct for a late 800a or 800b. Either way, a PO has cut into the body to add these also.

    Several pics have been included, to include the (to me) all important engine compartment pic. +1 for that. I would have liked to have seen the nose and grill of the vehicle, I believe that, that data would have told even more of the story on this vehicle.

    That out of the way, I'm going to fall in line with other posters here on this thread. It probably is a pretty nice vehicle, and the visible items I've commented on could easily put back. The auction list the vehicle location as Midvale, Utah, so there is a better chance than normal that this is rust free, at least rust free for a Binder. Its also note worthy to comment that there are many hard to find items here, especially stuff like the padded dash.

    I'm going to exit with the same qualifier that I came in on. The above points are just items that stuck out at me as a big flag of misc modifications. These are the ones clearly visible from the pics included. A lot of things can happen to a vehicle over the course of 50+ years. The bumpers aren't a big deal. OTOH, for me, a non-bodyman, restoration of the holes cut into the body for the backup lights and the side marker running lights are a bit bigger issue.

    Closing qualifier - This post is not intended as a personal attack against todtrip0, and, in summary, odds are better than normal that this is probably a great vehicle, I'm just not convinced that this is an unmolested, 54 year old virgin.

    Let me know what you think.

    Or set me straight if you know different. :)
     
  4. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Just looked thru my 113 & 123 parts book and there IS no rear bumperettes listed. OR for front.
     
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  5. stroker3

    stroker3 Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Not big into details on the early Scout or which years the Champagne was offered but no matter what , as you said a 1965 would not have any side markers/reflectors. That would be 68 and up. Also the steering wheel is 64 and older I 'think'. At least on the C series it was. Could be a build/sold date thing on that.
     
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  6. Sammy

    Sammy High Wheeler

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    Just a fleabay thing to me. Seller has a 0 rating. Regardless of what he is showing, I'm not buying.
     
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  7. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Bumperettes maybe off S2 bumper ?
     
  8. oneof3k

    oneof3k Binder Driver

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    Of course I'm highly partial to these CS Scouts, but jeez, y'all are pretty hard on the seller. IMHO, it is indeed one or two of the most complete CS's I've ever seen, plus it has the turbo and an overdrive! Yeah yeah, we can nit pick all we want about some of the little things, but plz look at the big picture. This is a rare little gal!

    That being said, Jerry is correct on most accounts with his comments. No bumperettes were stock, licence plate location wrong, and no side lights/reflectors or back up lights were ever offered on CS's. The steering wheel is correct, and most everything else is too! Well, maybe not the inverter/120V outlet shown behind the DS seat! And even though RCS's came with chrome front and rear bumpers, CS's had that as an option (two of my three CS's came with both chrome bumpers, but one came from the factory with a painted rear bumper - as per the LST). Chrome bumpers were like a turbo: an option.

    I actual posted a link to this Scout on someone's thread when it was for sale on Craigslist earlier this year.

    And here's the reason why the seller didn't post a pic of the nose (IMO). If he/she did, y'all would really have had a field day!

    981541-1553808014-886584.jpg

    I kept all the pics from the original Craigslist posting for my own (future) reference.
     
  9. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    I think it's a pretty "honest" Champagne. Sure, it has some vintage mods and alterations but they are relatively minor. Good place to start! and it looks just about rust free.
     
  10. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Looks good imo
     
  11. scout2000

    scout2000 Y-Block King

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    :) . . . . and a jeez right back at you.

    I had hoped an opening qualifier, closing qualifier (that my comments were not intended as any type of a personal attack), and a closing summary falling inline with previous post would have been adequate.

    Am I picking this apart...absolutely. But not for any negative reason. its more of a testing my knowledge, and the knowledge of my peers here on BP, as to what is right or wrong for the vehicle. I realize that the seller didn't post the eBay auction here, but heck, when a rare vehicle is advertised as "unmolested", some scrutiny has to be expected.



    I thought I was. Lot of rare, hard to acquire parts here, and I am ASSUMING that given the location (Utah), I would expect a generally rust free vehicle.



    I think my comments were pretty much spot on. I never commented on the steering wheel, but, IMHO, that is correct. Every Scout 80 I've seen has that steering wheel, including mine.


    And the front pic you've share continues to raise flags. I don't care about the eagle. The eagle is another PO mod that is easily remedied, much like the license plate. Same with the front bumperettes. A PO mod easily remedied.

    Its the hood that bothers me. A Scout 80 hood would have never had that hood emblem.

    I hope you can see what i'm getting at here. Nice as this vehicle may appear, and all the rare parts that come with it, this vehicle is a FRAKENSCOUT. Externally, its more Scout 800a/b than it is Scout 80. I question my own earlier comments here. Did a PO really cut in all those holes for running lights + backup lights? Or is this 2 parts vehicles put together to become one good one?

    How relevant are any of these points? Had this vehicle been a low end, low optioned Scout 80? Given a better price point, most of us would be ecstatic to have the clean body as a starting point.

    OTOH, this vehicle is represented to be a rare Champagne model. That the seller wants $14500.00 for. In a stated "unmolested" condition.

    I think I would feel this way about any limited edition early Scout, i.e. Champagne, RCS, Comanche, and that is my personal line in the sand. Its one thing to personalize and customize a bottom of the bucket vehicle, and I'm no exception to that rule. Special, limited edition Scouts deserve more respect in my book.

    And in closing here, and to reiterate, I'm (nit)picking out details from low resolution online pics. I would really like to see/hear the results, after a knowledgable person could examine this vehicle, inside and out, in person. I think that this vehicle has a lot of stories to tell.
     
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  12. mallen

    mallen High Wheeler

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    The cynic in me wonders how much rust might be between the top and the tub, after all, its never been removed.....
     
  13. 1975IH200

    1975IH200 High Wheeler

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    The Ebay auction is over.
    It "sold" for $14,500 to the first and only bidder.
     
  14. mallen

    mallen High Wheeler

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    That was exactly where I lived in Utah. In fact, my truck came from Logan Utah, about an hour north of there. If the vehicle had come from down south around Moab, I would say the chance for a rot free desert vehicle might be reasonable. But in the Salt Lake area, it Snows in the winter and there is salt on the roads. The vehciles there rot. If it was local to that area, the most likely case is that it has either gone through extensive restoration or the tub is a replacement. Mine was rotted beyond saving and I ended up finding a cab from a guy an hour south of me. He said that cab survived, mostly intact, because it was in a garage since the 80s. It did however have quite a bit of rust in places like the floorboards and the cowl and a little bit starting to show on a cab corner. Far from perfect, but certainly usable and fixable. He said that they started it up, it ran for a day then the engine froze, so he scrapped the frame and put the body on a ford chassis. (It was a real hack job and obvious that he never actually got it to work right) But the original sheet metal was all pretty much a loss. Of course my truck was from a bit north but vehicles from around where I lived rotted out in exactly the same way.
     
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  15. scout2000

    scout2000 Y-Block King

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    My earlier, critical comments aside, my best wishes for the buyer, and I hope he ends up here on Binder Planet.

    I truly believe that this vehicle has a lot of tales to tell, and I would like to hear some of there here on BP.
     
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  16. David Banner

    David Banner High Wheeler

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    I get what you're saying -- for that kinda money a seller should spend the $20 to have the LST for the vehicle which is the only proof of what any IH is 'born as'.
     
  17. oneof3k

    oneof3k Binder Driver

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    I certainly was not trying to pick on you at all Jerry; I was just pointing out CS facts as I know them! Hell, I could have kept going by saying the seats weren't original, it has (had) a 800 tailgate latching system (and yes, lots of 800 emblems on the front). Plus the dash has a few new holes in it (maybe for some idiot lights) and so on and so on. Oh, and did anyone notice the all wheel drive emblem on the tailgate?

    It may have been misleading to say it was completely "original" (I don't remember now how it was listed now), but it would take very little effort to make it completely "original" in my mind. If that's what the buyer wants.

    I have been going to great lengths to make my current build as original as possible, hence I've been trying to learn what is and what is not original over the past few years. I'm guessing that in a year or two when it gets done, I'll be ridiculed here for not having the "IH"-branded bolt head holding the horn onto the body! No wait, I've already thought of that!
     
  18. Randall Barringer

    Randall Barringer Y-Block King

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    I should have put the above in quotes as it was directly from the ad.
    Ed, I thought I had seen this one before and when you mentioned that you had posted it, it all came together.
     
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  19. oneof3k

    oneof3k Binder Driver

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    And I whole-heartedly second that Jerry! I love leaning and reading about the less common/doll-up Scout 80s.
     
  20. oneof3k

    oneof3k Binder Driver

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    So how does it feel to be $14.5K poorer Randy!
     
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