MiniBuild #13 ~ Chris K

Discussion in 'D and C Extreme' started by Damian Grihalva, Aug 8, 2007.


  1. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Well, I guess I could update a little. Chris, you have a full size picture of the rig from the front in your email.:clap:

    As for finishing this up. There was only a few things to do. Finish the shocks, install the new radiator, and get things rolling.

    The first picture is of the new aluminum radiator we bought for this rig. The old 2-row radiator was extremely inefficient and started springing leaks. For $450, this is a replacement that a buddy of mine puts together just for scouts. There was a ton of little mounting mods we needed to do to make it work, so these aren't for sale yet ~ this is just a preview.

    This second picture is the front end completely finished up, TieRod is in, axle is painted, shocks in place.

    The third and forth picture is of the shock setup out back. The standard LTSS was used with 11" travel rancho's mounted as a V ~ then Chris had us put in some KickerShocks. Kicker shocks mount from the spring plate to the frame to help control axle wrap. We used the 9000s on this so Chris could fine-tune it to his liking.

    The last picture is a preview of what the scout will look like with the 35x15.5" TSL/SXs. The SX tires are probably/arguably the best off-road tire ever built. They are TOUGH as nails ~ but this set has seen their day. See next post.
     
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  2. christopher

    christopher Farmall Cub

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    holy macaroni, thats one good looking scout!!!!!!
     
  3. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Before we get into the tires ~ I want to bring up a subject far to many people know far to little about. Meaning, its something everyone should know about, but few actually realize what effect it has on your rig.

    That's the subject of back-spacing. Back-spacing (BS for short) is the measurement from the back of your rim to the back mounting surface of your rim ~ or where the rim sits on your axle (or the lugs). See first and second picture.

    Standard backspacing is 3.5-4" for a 15" rim. This is normally sufficient for up to 32" tires. However, if you are doing similar mods as this ~ or you have unusually wide tires ~ you may need less BS to so that the tires done run into the steering or springs or..whatever.

    If you are really observant, you probably noticed that there are 1 1/8" wheel spacers in one of the last pictures. Here is a close-up. (see third picture). These were required because the rims Chris supplied had 4.25-4.5" of BS. This mean that when we installed them, they actually rubbed the steering. Since the tires we used are 15.5" wide, the tires themselves rubbed the hysteer arms. Normally 15x10" rims have 3.5" of backspacing ~ and this is sufficient to run 12.50" wide tires ~ even these monsterous 15.5" wide SXs would have had enough clearance ~ However, with 4.5" of BS ~ they needed to be spaced to create clearance.

    The last picture is of the steering clearance AFTER the spacers are in. There is sufficient for turning and air'd-down wheeling ~ but this could have been avoided if you double check the BS of your rims before buying super-wide tires.

    This post is not to rip anyone for anything ~ its for informational use only. My point in bringing this up is simple. Please make sure that when you buy rims and tires, get 3.5" of BS on 15x10s. People will tell you that you want more back spacing saying that they won't stick out ~ bit please dont be fooled. 3.5" of backspacing is NOT enough to look goofy. Although the rims will stick out a little ~ but don't be led to believe that it'll stick out allot ~ An inch is a finger's width. Its better to stick out a fingers width than to have tires/wheels grinding away on steering componants causing severe tire and/or steering damage causing an acident or worste.

    Wheel spacers can cost $100 per pair. Its a costly mistake. REMEMBER 3-3.5" OF BS IS GOOD TO CLEAR, MORE THAN THAT YOU MAY ~ meaning probably will ~ RUN INTO TROUBLE.

    (soap box off)
     
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  4. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    I'm sure you guys think that I was on my soapbox before with the BS thing. But that isn't anything compared to what you're about to read about. This is not meant or in anyway a rip on Chris ~ if you read that into it, you're an idiot. I'm not trying to rip anyone here. We are all Scouters and friends in the scouting world. This is one of many reasons why I write these builds ~ to show what to do, and what not to do. Or in this case get.

    BEWARE OF USED TIRES! I'll be the first to say that I rarely buy new tires. Normally I can find what I'm looking for for 25-75% off the cost of new (with very little ~ if any ~ miles) by doing a search of my favorite 4x4 sites. However, among the great deals is the guys tring to off-load completely worn out tires. And that brings us to my next subject.

    These tires were purchased for pretty cheap, and you're about to see why. Please note the cracking in the side-walls. I've seen people running cracked ~ or 'dry rotted' tires before without it causing to much of a problem, but with this set of 35s it is a problem.

    The first thing you'll notice about dry-rotted and cracked tires is that they no longer hold air. They are dry and dont flex, this causes cracks in the sidewalls ~ which allows air to excape. This can be very dangerous. The dry tires dont flex, therefore they create heat as the cracks rub together ~ as they create heat, the cracks get bigger ~ allowing more air to excape. Two of these tires will hold air for a week, the other two rarely hold it for more than a night. While test driving the scout, we filled the tires prior to leaving the shop. It took 3 minutes of driving (roughtly a mile) for the rear passenger tire (last picture) to go completely flat ~ and we were only doing about 20MPH. Look closely at the flat tire ~ you can see how big the crack is. :no:

    At higher speeds these tires could tear apart causing a wreck. This is unsafe and should be avoided at all costs. I realize that some can 'limp' their rigs home, but don't be foolish. "Playing it safe" could literally mean being able to "play another day".

    I've left these pictures bigger ~ about 800 pixels wide ~ so that you can see the detail and cracks. Please, please ~ PLEASE, if you are buying a set of used tires ~ which I do for my own rigs on an extremely regular basis ~ please make sure that the tires are safe. If you see cracks ~ you should seriously cosider passing on the set. No matter what the price.
     
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  5. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Now the moment everyone has been waiting for. What does the little homely scout we started with look like after the lift? Well here ya go.

    Specs:
    1973 Scout II, V8, T18-wide, D20. Really clean body for Colorado. Aluminum Radiator, Scout II D44s, w/ 4.09 gears, tracklock rear. 9.5" of suspension lift via a D&C Competition SOA (includes Reverse Shackle, X-duty Shackles, HighAngle Drively CV-shafts, LongTravel Shocks (Rancho 9000s) w/ KickerShocks on 2.5" lift springs (SOA = 6", Lift Springs = 2.5", RS = 1", total 9.5") This lift will clear the 35" tires in most conditions and normally will not rub. With the 1 1/8" wheel spacers the tires stick out a little, but the look pretty porportioned to me ~ and it certainly doesn't stick out a ton. Also turns really sharp (Hysteer). I'd run a similar tire on this lift on a DD/weekend warrior in a heartbeat ~ the Swamper SXs are some of the most respected off-road tires out there.
    Had these tires been in better condition, this Scout would be ready to tackle most of what Colorado has to offer.

    If you have any questions about this lift, why we did anything in particular, let me know. I'm sure there are several people out there with questions ~ lets not muck up this thread with talk, feel free to post a new thread here in my forum and I'll be happy to address it.
     
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  6. Rando

    Rando Farmall Cub

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    looks good.
    are you working back over at your old shop?
     
  7. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Ya, I've been using it off/on since I left. My machinist wanted the space for power reasons. Mark works there with me ~ I'm mostly at the house taking calls, building stuff. Just a few project at the "over-flow" shop ;)
     
  8. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Glad you like it. It really turned out nice with.
     
  9. Gary Billings

    Gary Billings Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    The backspacing problem is usually compounded by using the stock Scout II stuff on redrilled Chevy knuckles or the '74/75 IH knuckles. If you swapped over to the Chevy/FSJ spindles and Ford hubs/rotors, you *probably* wouldn't have a problem with using those wheels because the Chevy/Ford stuff is about an inch wider than Scout II outers.

    -Gary
     
  10. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Thanks for that add Gary. I've never had a problem with these in the past, but I normally use 3.5" BS rims. I normally dont' use the ford/chevy parts on the conversions I do because it can be confusing when trying to buy new brake/wheelbearing parts for it later down the road. But it is some great info and definately worth looking into if you have larger off-set wheels.
     
  11. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Well, this scout is now home. Chris did aquire some IROK tires and we had them installed. A sticky caliper was the only hickup, but the rig's home. Here's some pictures with the IROKs on it instead.
     
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  12. Socha's75Scout

    Socha's75Scout Farmall Cub

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    Damian,

    The Scout looks great.....just curious here, have you ever considered opening a shop here on the East Coast????? I know its wishful thinking....:innocent:

    Keep up the great work.
     
  13. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    The east coast? Not really, sorry. Actually, my wife is looking for a Vet college to go to get her education to be an actual doctor ~ may have to look that direction. :whistling:
     
  14. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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