LST questions and other delusions

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Schibe, Mar 27, 2019.


  1. Schibe

    Schibe Farmall Cub

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    Soooo,
    following the advice here, i got my LST from WHS. its attached. I am the proud owner of a 64 Scout 80 that needs a full restore..
    so i still have a few questions...
    SN is a FC96261. i noticed more numbers under the serial number on the LST. A possible explanation from a gentleman at WHS is that those are the full numbers of the serial number that precede the FC but i thought i could see a second FC starting off faintly.
    Plate in engine compartment says its a 4x2. does this mean that only the rear wheels provide power or does it just mean that only 2 wheels will provide power- front or rear or diagonal. LST doesnt mention a transfer case or that the front axle is anything special. my scout does have 3 sticks. pretty sure its a T13 tranny with a D18 transfer case.
    LST also says it came with a full lenght travel top when its a pick up with a bulkhead and removeable top.
    off question is can a 266 V8 with 4spd trans bolt in to the scout 80 or does it require a lot of altering.
    Obviously, i'm new to the LST thing so i'm sure i'm not reading it correctly.
    Any and all help is deeply appreciated.
     

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  2. 428street

    428street Farmall Cub

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    Many more experts than me but I'll give this a shot to help.

    Plate in engine compartment says its a 4x2. does this mean that only the rear wheels provide power or does it just mean that only 2 wheels will provide power- front or rear or diagonal. LST doesnt mention a transfer case or that the front axle is anything special.

    ----> If its a 4 x 2 stock there would be no transfer case to "transfer" power from the engine/transmission to the front axles. Depending on the rear end its possible only one wheel is power unless you have a PowrLok rear which give you power to both rear wheels.

    my scout does have 3 sticks. pretty sure its a T13 tranny with a D18 transfer case.

    ----------> Not sure on this, possibly some converted it to a 4WD. Any pics of the underneath? Is there a drive shaft going to the front. The older D18 had two sticks and the third for the t90 trans probably.

    LST also says it came with a full lenght travel top when its a pick up with a bulkhead and removeable top.

    --------> Someone must have taken the TT off and put in the bulkhead and Cab top.

    off question is can a 266 V8 with 4spd trans bolt in to the scout 80 or does it require a lot of altering.

    -------> Not impossible, guys have done it but lot of work...engine mounts, rad support, etc.

    Obviously, i'm new to the LST thing so i'm sure i'm not reading it correctly.
     
  3. Greg R

    Greg R Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    4X2 means 4 wheels 2 provide power usually from the rear axle, or front as in FWD front wheel drive. 4X4 is 4 wheels can provide power with both axles. The front axle is engaged depending on conditions.

    Your rear axle on the LST is a Dana 27 with tapered ends and a 4.27:1 ratio. That is low gears but a good match for the 4 cylinder engine; you just won't go fast.

    Does the chassis number on the LST match the frame number on the vehicle itself? If it does, then some swaps have been made considering the top and 3 sticks.

    I wouldn't recommend a V8. Lots of alterations upfront need done and if the axle is original it might be a bit light for the V8 as well as the transmission.
     
  4. SteelyCal

    SteelyCal Farmall Cub

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    I know very little about reading LST but, there are some sites out there that break down codes like Super Scout Specialists. The Scout Encyclopedia is also a great reference and read if you don't have it already. I was able to find this:
    T13 Transmission- which was standard for the 4x2: 3 speed manual, T-13 (Warner-90), two wheel drive.
    FA 4 front axle was a forged steel I beam.
    As Greg already said, RA-14 14014 Dana 27 w/PowerLock - MT113. Your stock rear axle was a Dana 27 w/PowerLock which was optional.
    I also noticed that it's listed as Prototype on the line above the paint code. But, know little about how these things were listed on LSTs or what they would be indicative of. I do know that FC refers to where it was assembled in Fort Wayne, and C for C-line (the assembly line). Most of this is straight out of the Scout Encyclopedia.
     
  5. Schibe

    Schibe Farmall Cub

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    i kinda figured the V8 would be too much. dont want to replace the rear axle. is a jump to the 196cu 4cyl a clean swap or still require modding.
    Front axle does have a pumpkin, lock out hubs and shaft going back to transfer case.
    will look for the FC on the chassis. I was wondering what the prototype thing ment.
    I did get this sent to me by Alec Thicke at WHS. (thank you for all your help. Alec!)
    http://old.superscoutspecialists.com/store/t-codereference.aspx
     
  6. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    Yep, it was born a 4x2, an old military term indicating four wheels, two driving, or four wheels, four driving in the case of a 4x4. Or potentially driving. Standard open differentials don't always drive both wheels on an axle depending upon the amount of traction available to each tire... but that's another discussion. The first to digits in the model prefic (top line of the components list) "71" indicate a 4x2.

    The FA4 axle was just a forged I-beam "dead" axle. The FA14 (Dana 27AF) was the driven "live" axle used on a 4x4. A 4x2 had no transfer case to split power front to rear and used a 2wd version of the Warner T90 3-speed called a T13 by IH (the 4x4 box was a T14). Yours did come with a Powr-Lok limited slip differential in the rear axle, and with this upgrade the Dana 27 sem-ifloat axle was called a RA14.

    If yours now has a transfer case and a driving front axle, it was converted by a PO. Not a difficult task. The 4x2s, however are much more rare (only about 10% of production) but they are much less desirable.

    The second FC#is just a double stamp. It was all done by hand in those days and mistakes happened. Serial numbers did get changed occasionally but you can find verification in the handwritten one on page 2.

    As to the LST saying it was a Cabtop and also mentions the Traveltop, that's how it was done. International thought of them mainly as a pickup, so in the earlier days, they continued to list the Cabtop even when a Traveltop was ordered... which they considered an accessory at the time.

    Installing a V266 is a relatively difficult task because the front crossmember needs to be moved forward and the steering box relocated to outside the chassis (in a nutshell, it's much more involved with detail) so it's not a "bolt-in."

    Yours is a little special in that it came in the '64-only Vegas Blue Metallic paint, code 6456BL. I've never seen a survivor in that color but the chip looks nice. I seem to recall they had some issue with the paint and that's why it was only the one year offering.

    Just in case you got excited seeing the word "prototype" near the bottom of the component list, I gotta burst that bubble. It was a word IH used to describe a particular configuration. They began a system whereby production schedulers and dealers could use a simple ordering system. In your case, the was "S-80-1" for Scout 80, 1st configuration. That was essentially a 4x2 Cabtop to which you could check a few boxes to get other upgrades. I believe they had 8 configurations in this era, so the top dog could be an S-80-8. Or you could still order the old way by checking the various boxes on the order sheet.

    If you have any specific question about the LST, ask away.
     
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  7. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

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    The serial number on the body plate should match the (abbreviated) number stamped on the frame; I assume that's the number you ordered the LST for. The first part of the number on the top right line of the LST, "710805" would precede the "FC96261" giving a full serial number of 719805FC96261. That full number should be on any State registration papers you have.
    It should be obvious with just a quick look whether you have a plain axle vs a driving axle in front, the latter having a drive shaft connecting to a transfer case. If it is a driving unit, the vehicle has been modified, as Greg said, and the LST no longer fully applies to the current condition. Only detailed examination will confirm what is present now.

    I would suggest you go to your "Personal Details" and add some information about your location, which makes it much easier finding local parts or help, when needed. Might also be useful if you post here some indication of your plans for the Scout and what experience, tools or nearby help (e.g. family members or friends) you have. How did you chose a Scout?
     
  8. Schibe

    Schibe Farmall Cub

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    i did just look and confirm it is a live front axle, lockout hubs, prop shaft connecting to transfer case. (had to go check before i posted) I just joined a week or so ago so havent filled that out yet. I'm in Seneca, S.C. we had a 70's Scout when i was growing up, always loved it. saw this one sitting in a lot for sale and decided its the one.
    Plans for it -
    well thats still up in the air. it needs a complete restore. cab off frame., quite a bit of rusted out areas- new fenders, etc. its been sitting for a very long. radiator long gone and electrical a slight mess. dont think i can do an original restore but also no need to go crazy with engine size, trans etc. i read that 152 is pretty disappointing to drive but that can be taken out of context too easily. i'm open to thoughts and ideas.
    I have rebuild experience but not on this scale. tool access is not really an issue, quite a few buddys are interested in helping.
    and finally, the scout 80 pickup is just dang sexy
     
  9. Greg R

    Greg R Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Congratulations are in order. This reads like you already have the right ducks in a row. I will suggest you get a Service Manual. Many sections in it are standard vehicle type service and repair but it does have things that are not known much about anymore such as tapered end axles. The wiring schematics are also a HUGE help and in my opinion worth the price alone.
    Good Luck and keep us in touch!
     
  10. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

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  11. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    Another thing I noticed: The was no destination in the Ship-To box. It went to TSPC (Truck Sales Processing Center) but the reason why was not made clear. It was also one of three in an order. Was it three identical to your? That also isn't clear. Back to TSPC, that was a place where installations/modifications that the assembly line couldn't do, or were too busy to do took place. Sometimes the installation of backordered parts took place there (though they were usually listed on the LST somewhere). Anyway, it's a puzzle that will probably never be solved. Unless, youhave any background on the Scout. Where it was originally sold, etc. It could be there were some special items installed... though those items are typically listed on the LST if they were part of the order. If I had to guess, I'd say this Scout was destined to be part of something done by IH. Maybe a photo shoot that required some special prep or signage. But that's just a guess. As you go through the Scout, look for signs of how it may have been used or any evidence of where it may have spent most of it's life.
     
  12. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

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    Might want to take pictures of the axles, especially the housing in the middle (commonly called the punkin'). That way we can try to give you some idea what axles are there. It would not surprise me if the rear axle is not original. It would be common to swap it to something like a D44 if your installing 4WD. Check the vin on the frame. In most states, the vin on the frame IS the vehicle. However, people swapping things around dont always know that, or in some cases know it but just decide to register it with the wrong vin for reasons like getting around smog laws.
     
  13. Carl Wiese

    Carl Wiese Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I tried to give this a good read and may have missed it. Have you double checked the data plate against the serial number on the frame? That plate may not be original to the Scout. I speak from experience.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
  14. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

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    "That plate may not be original to the Scout" meaning to the frame and drive train, or even to the body itself.
    I asked that in Post 7, and no, the answer hasn't yet been made clear; by sometime this weekend though, we should expect it together with pictures and more questions, right? :beer:
     
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  15. Schibe

    Schibe Farmall Cub

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    yes, i will try to locate the frame serial. the front and rear axle pumpkins are off center to the passenger side, in line with each other. Mot sure what signs i can get off the truck regarding its past. door for the glovebox is long gone. i added a media gallery with a few pics from when i picked it up. will add more this weekend. not sure how to link the gallery here? Gallery name is '64 Scout 80 Pickup
     
  16. Schibe

    Schibe Farmall Cub

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    Here is the plate and a side view 20190305_095007.jpg 20190305_094326.jpg
     
  17. Schibe

    Schibe Farmall Cub

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    and yes, that is another scout behind it. no, i didnt buy it, its still there for sale. :oldih:
     
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  18. RinTX

    RinTX High Wheeler

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    Where?
     
  19. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    That looks like "Aged" Vegas Blue Metallic to me.
    Be interesting to see if the chassis # stamp matches the tag. Would be surprising if it didn't since it isn't hard to swap over the four-wheel drive parts
    from a Donor Scout 80.

    Vegas Blue Metallic 6456.jpg
     
  20. Schibe

    Schibe Farmall Cub

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    Morgans Used Cars Canon, GA
     

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