I'm confused...or maybe he is.....

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Randall Barringer, Jul 15, 2019.


  1. Randall Barringer

    Randall Barringer Y-Block King

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  2. Jeff Jamison

    Jeff Jamison Lives in an IH Dealership

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    I cant blow the line set up,the only thing I saw was doll up,maybe the wrong line setting ticket,dont look like one to me.
     
  3. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    Coupla offhand comments:

    A- There are no 800 Champagne Series. With the 800 debut, they took the basic Champagne package and called it the Custom. They divided the Scout lines into the Custom Scout and the Utility Scout, with the Custom denoted by the sixth digit in the model prefix being an "8" and the Standard a "7". You saw the same Doll-Up Stamp as you did with the late RCS and CS Scout 80s. It has the right VIN and prefix, so it's a real Custom Scout. Or what's left of one.

    B- Not much of the original Custom interior trim left in that thing, making the price kinda out of line with reality. The interior is the value and the biggest cost being the body work. I've seen much better work from Tijuana.
     
  4. mongocanfly

    mongocanfly High Wheeler

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    I can blow it up...what on the lst means champagne?

    Edit....Jim the man...
     
  5. oneof3k

    oneof3k High Wheeler

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    "True" Scout 80 Champagnes (and RCS's) had unique codes listed on the LST for the front compartment (16665), back compartment (16666), and cab tops (16667). But I really dig the Aspen Green paint! Most other attributes, not so much.
     
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  6. mongocanfly

    mongocanfly High Wheeler

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  7. Randall Barringer

    Randall Barringer Y-Block King

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    I'll wait for Mr Allen to reply, this is above my pay grade.
    Very interesting if it is a champagne Scout.
    Thanks for reaching out to the seller.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
     
  8. mongocanfly

    mongocanfly High Wheeler

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    If anybody knows for sure I would think it would be Jim..he did ammend his listing down at the bottom...

    He also sent me a page by Ben Branch...https://silodrome.com/buying-guide-international-harvester-scout/

    INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER SCOUT 800 (1966–1971)
    In 1965 the Scout 800 began replacing the Scout 80 in dealer showrooms. The Scout 800 was an upgraded version of the original Scout 80 so it looked essentially the same in terms of body style but had various improvements including front bucket seats, good heating, revised instrumentation with an updated dashboard, and optional rear seats. The windshield wipers continued to be vacuum operated but were moved to the bottom of the windshield. The windshield of the new model was no longer folding. The luxury Champagne option pack introduced on the Scout 80 continued to be available on the Scout 800.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  9. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    No rear seat arm rests ? Is that even a scout seat ?
     
  10. mongocanfly

    mongocanfly High Wheeler

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    He stated that alot of things had been painted ,removed,etc etc....he sent me 5-6 messages on this....he seems convinced he has a champagne scout because it says dolled up on the lst....
     
  11. stroker3

    stroker3 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    He did. Post #3.
     
  12. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    If anyone wants to take the trouble to look, I have argued this point many times here and even posted scans of the pages of the data book for the '66 800 in which it is referred to as a CUSTOM not a Champagne. There's a lot more than that, including discussions about the Custom trim level 800s in product planning documents. They had two basic trims, Custom and Utility and the model lines were divided that way.

    I challenge anyone to find primary documents where the Dolled Up 800 is called a Champagne. A piece of IH paper where the 800 Custom is called "Champagne." I've looked. Hard. Because I have learned that I can't count on everyone knowing what primary documents are; they are actual IH documents from the period or near to it. NOT someone's opinion or a regurgitation of someone's opinion. I have made this challenge before and a few have come back with some old article or some old post backed up by nothing. If someone does that here, he should expect to be brutally abused by me ( : < ). I would genuinely appreciate being proven wrong here but if IH didn't call it a Champagne, it's not a Champagne. Just because some of the features of a Champagne translated into the 800 Custom doesn't make it a Champagne. IH called it a Custom... it's a Custom. Somebody prove me wrong. Please!

    If you know the model prefix codes, you will know that the last unique code in this era was the RCS. It was totally unique to the RCS. In the 80 Champagne and the 800 Custom, IH used the model codes more generically with 780908 (above it was shown as "7809082" but eliminate the last 2 because that is a filler digit found only on the LST), the sixth digit is an "8," which signifies a Doll-Up Travel Top. A "6" would indicate a Doll-up Cab Top. Doll-Up became a term for any Scout with a high end fitting out, it does not necessarily equate to "Champagne." Doll-Up was used with the Custom, Aristocrat, SR-2 and others, not just the Champagne, and those Doll Up code numbers carried through the entire 800, 800A and 800B era.

    To further muddy the waters, the "Champagne" was offered in more colors than the traditional Champagne Mist. Are they still "Champagnes?" It's ambiguous in the literature and based on what I have read in product planning docs, they were moving towards making the Doll-Up a more mainstream trim option than a "special model." My opinion is that the Champagne Mist colored 80 Doll Ups were the original intended "Champagne" but they strayed away from that as production went on and you saw more and more Doll-Ups being offered in colors beside 1501. Also, the Champagne mist "Champagnes" almost always have "Champ" or somesuch hand written in the Ship-To box. The non-1501 Scouts, it gradually changes and I contend it was part of a move towards making the Doll-Up a more generic feature. Because the profit margin was higher on Doll-Ups.
     
  13. Randall Barringer

    Randall Barringer Y-Block King

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    I know, I was waiting for post 12.


    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
     
  14. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Nice
     
  15. oneof3k

    oneof3k High Wheeler

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    Boy I'm sure glad I've not questioned this Scout 800 Champagne wife's tale and get my pee pee slapped!

    Since I've been learning/following this CS thing, unscientifically, I do believe there are many fewer folks here on BP referring Custom 800's as CS's, particularly since Jim and John's book came out. For all others such as the eBay posting, things seem to change more slowly!
     
  16. stroker3

    stroker3 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Yes, I guess number three was the trailer...:laugh:.....#12 is the feature length version.
     
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  17. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    :beer:

    Honestly, until somebody like me came along and looked at the primary documents, nobody in the geek realm of the Scout world really knew. I can understand how the Custom 800 could be conflated with the Scout 80 CS since the packages were so similar but after being exposed to all the documentation a few things became clear:

    1- As the '65 MY progressed, "Champagne" became used less and less and "Custom" or "Custom Trim" began being used more and more in internal literature. They also began selling more an more in colors other than Champagne Mist. By the time the 800s debuted, "Custom" was it and even the preliminary information from as early as May/June of '65 called it such

    2- To clarify/correct something I said above, the Scout 80 Doll-Ups did not have a special model code as did the RCS (3rd digit of prefix is "1" for the RCS). They had Doll-Up stamps on the LST and the two Doll-Up component codes (16665 and 16666) . Many, especially the early ones, had a "Champ" or something similar, written in the ship to box but as the the year progressed, fewer and fewer had it and at the end you didn't see it at all. I have been meaning to see if only the Champagne Mist units had it, or if it was all. I think I figured that out once before but it's faded from memory.

    3- The Red Carpet and some (a very few) early Champagnes had a "Custom" emblem on the door. Certainly the pilot model Champagne shot for the Champagne brochure has a custom emblem and there is one other picture I have found of a Champ with a Custom emblem.

    Here is page 4 of the 1966 Scout 800 Brochure in which the Custom and Utility models are better explained. The brochure is dated 7/26/65.

    Also here is the Spec Sheet for the 800 models dated 7/1/65 that mentions the Utility and Custom level.

    So can we call this settled? I'm not going to scan and post every source I have available but between this and the other stuff I posted previously, it's pretty well nailed. As I said, if you can find documentation where the 800 Custom was officiaily called a "Champagne" I am happy to adjust this.
     

    Attached Files:

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