IH 300 Utility water pump leak

Discussion in 'Tractor Tech' started by sarookha, Mar 3, 2017.


  1. sarookha

    sarookha Farmall Cub

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    I'm enjoying my "new" 1955 300 U, lots more power than my ferd 8n. The 300U leaks coolant out the water pump shaft and/or housing, it's hard to see up in there without taking it all apart. I don't see anything from Steiner or the other parts houses, seems like the 350 and later models (and the M's from the previous generation) have plenty of support but not much out there for the 300 U. Any suggestions as to what I should use to re-pack the water pump shaft with? Or sources for a rebuilt pump?
     
  2. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    quick fix = a few tubes of silver solder
     
  3. sarookha

    sarookha Farmall Cub

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    I understand soldering a crack in the housing, it would take some creativity for solder to be a quick fix for a leaky shaft. :cornfused:
     
  4. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    the dealers had roll's of that 1/2" square w-pump shaft seal packing strips. think i still have some ( roll ) on the wall. they'd just cut off what they needed and pack it ? it's almost the same stuff as rear main bearing packing material. like used for " rope seal's "
     
  5. sarookha

    sarookha Farmall Cub

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    Thanks Jeff, sounds promising, I'll see what I can find.
     
  6. sarookha

    sarookha Farmall Cub

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    Thanks for your generous offer via Tapatalk, I can't seem to access the app on my iPhone though. My address is 12035 S FM 779, Alba, TX, 75410
     
  7. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    That depends on the design/construction of the pump, what the shaft is made of (carbon vs stainless steel), and whether it is worn or corroded. Pitting and grooves can be filled in with silver solder with less chance of distorting the shaft than plain welding would. Some of the metal-filled epoxies also work well for that, and Speedy Sleeves might even be available if the shaft isn't too small.
    BTW, do those old systems have any provision for, or room to add, an overflow tank to the radiator system? Besides saving antifreeze, they keep air out of the system and thus lessen breakdown of the coolant, plus slow oxidation and corrosion of the metal components.
    Any pictures available, both of the pump and the tractor, if only to show off your new project/acquisition/'friend & partner'? :ihtractor:
     
  8. sarookha

    sarookha Farmall Cub

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    Thanks for the info, I hadn't thought about the shaft being pitted or grooved, that's probably what Jeff was thinking too!
    This particular radiator has a huge top reservoir, but just a simple overflow tube out the side of the filler neck. So coolant that goes that route is lost.
     
  9. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    ok good, when i find t i'll send you some.
     
  10. sarookha

    sarookha Farmall Cub

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    Thanks! And I'll bulk up on the silver solder, what I have now is 0.050" for electronics!
     
  11. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    If there's room and it won't spoil the looks, you can add an overflow tank; even a jury rigged one will do the job.

    Is that one of the lower melting point and possibly softer alloys? For general use in the garage, I used to mainly use Cadmium-containing 45%, but recently got some 56% material on Ebay for a fairly good price. Need to quit playing here and get out to use some of those supplies and tools!
     
  12. sarookha

    sarookha Farmall Cub

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    I hear you! Yes, the solder for electronics is pretty low temp stuff, so as to protect the sensitive components.
     
  13. kevingweq

    kevingweq High Wheeler

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    I think what Jeff was thinking about is actual "rope packing" take another peek at your waterpump and see if it has a threaded
    adjustment where the shaft enters the housing , Not sure on the 300U but the older M's and 350's and TD dozers had pump packing
    that required regular adjustment (tightening)

    Here is a pic of a T-20 water pump ,The packing is coiled around the shaft
    and pushed in with adjuster , The packing is readily available
    t20 water pump 004 (765x1280).jpg

    Here is a packing wrench
    11858-DA IH Farmall water pump wrench.JPG
     
  14. sarookha

    sarookha Farmall Cub

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    Yes, this is how my 300U is set up. Cool gland nut adjusting tool!
     
  15. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    exactly,thx kev !
     
  16. kevingweq

    kevingweq High Wheeler

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    Does your 300U have the adjustable pulley grooves also ?? If so, be careful freeing them up they tend to break easily (ask how I know)
    There is no spec on the amount of packing to put in the "stuffing box" , I use just enough to make it difficult to get the packing nut started:1eye:
    The original packing was basically rope or heavy twine , upgraded thru the years it is now made of "felt like " material and impregnated with white lead and grease .
    The nut is available , as are the pulley parts ,packing ,bearings etc,
    If you have a chance take some pix ,I would like to see any differences between the early T-20 (1930's) and your utility pump Good Luck

    t20 waterpump no groove (1280x765).jpg
    t20 waterpump 006 (765x1280).jpg

    t20 waterpump groove (765x1280).jpg



    farmall ih waterpump packing.jpg


    steiners gland nut.jpg
     
  17. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Modern packing materials which contain Teflon are also available. I assume that when used with a smooth shaft, they provide less friction with the same tightness, and maybe need adjustment less often.
    BTW, some of the older packing materials, particularly the type designed for large hand valves or stationary couplings in very hot environments, employed asbestos fibers. Empty cans of the material actually sell on Ebay as collector's items. I should post pictures of a full one and its contents on the 'Old Tools' thread here!
     
  18. Greg R

    Greg R Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Do you have a parts "breakdown" of the pump? Generally it took about 3 to 5 rings of packing plus a lantern ring. A lantern ring went in after the 1st or 2nd rings of packing and 1 or 2 after that. The lantern ring was brass with slots or windows in it to let water in the stuffing box, (where the packing went), to help lubricate and cool the packing. Old school asbestos oil impregnated packing has been phased out since the 70's. Teflon packing is the most common now, but it's tricky to initially tighten and wear in. If it gets too tight on the 1st start-up, it'll burn in a heart beat and score the shaft. The trick is to let it leak like crazy and slowly ever so slowly tighten until there's maybe a drop a minute. Then slowly time to time it'll eventually seal up. I've never bought Teflon packing for tractors, but we've gotten it from industrial supply for bigger pumps in 1/8" to 1/2" sizes and there's square and rectangular as well; Chestertron was the name. Depending how bad the shaft is scored or uneven, sometimes the Teflon packing can eventually conform to the shaft. It's best to get new or have the old shaft spray welded and machined true again. There's a lot of friction on that shaft, so choose carefully.

    [QUOTE
    ,The packing is coiled around the shaft
    and pushed in with adjuster
    ][/QUOTE]
    Coiled? That's new to me, interesting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
  19. kevingweq

    kevingweq High Wheeler

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    The packing that was we used for water pump and hydraulic packing came packaged in a box
    with wax paper wrapping , Trim the end at an angle then feed ,stuff and coil it until you figured there
    was enough in the tube ,again trim the top , It was covered with an oily graphite ?? Much darker than
    the one pictured above , The box said "no leakz" or somethin similar

    This looks a lot like it http://www.alliancesealing.com.au/?page_id=844
    PILOTSIL 8113 – multi-purpose pump & valve packing for oils & water

    greasy packing.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
  20. kevingweq

    kevingweq High Wheeler

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