Ignition systems for the Duraspark Conversion

Discussion in 'Injection Tech' started by Bill USN-1, Jan 25, 2006.


  1. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    After you have completed the Duraspark distributor conversion by following this thread. CLICK

    For Non-Fuel Injection
    Now how about something easy for the ignition.
    Here is the DS distributor running a GM 4 wire ignition module. Now you get modern electronics (same as the $$$ HEI Distr has) that are available in every parts store.

    As a preview, Here is a little teaser video showing my conversion avail direct, using the optional round HEI coil.
    Duraspark conversion video

    I also recommend the voltage to the coil be directly from a power relay so it receives full battery voltage and just use the original key switch wire to energize the relay.

    Ignition Module PN- EL102
    NOTE: ignition module MUST be mounted on a heat sink like 1/8" alum, and it MUST be mounted with thermal conductive paste(CPU mounting paste). Do not use the parts store dielectric grease.
    The heat sink should also be bolted directly to the engine to provide a good ground for the module. The module grounds through the mounting screws so both must be installed.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here it is installed by John H.

    [​IMG]


    Ford Duraspark Ignition

    Plug the Ford Duraspark ignition module into the distr harness and wire in the 12V. This was my first major change to my scout when the GB died.

    [​IMG]

    Part Number: EL107
    Vehicle: 1979 FORD F-150 PICKUP
    Engine: V8 5.8 Liter 2BBL
    Module; OE Style; 351M Engine; 351W Engine; Except High Altitude Distributor # D6AE-12A199-A1A/A1C/A2A/A2B/A2C; D8VE-12A199-A1B/A1C/A1L/A2B/A2C; E8PF-12A199-AA/AB
    Our Price: $19.48

    You can grab the wires and the ignition box from the junk yard when you get the base plate. I normally pay $10-$15 for everything. If you look around, sometimes you find some near new replacements parts hiding in there!

    The later TFI coil is another option while you are grabbing parts.
    It's an epoxy core coil so there is no oil. Like the GM coil.
    Used by Jeep guys with DS.
    Part Number: FF179
    Vehicle: 1988 FORD BRONCO
    Engine: V8 5.8 Liter FI
    Ignition Coil: Windsor
    Our Price: $21.99

    [​IMG]




    Here is the wiring. (view in normal mode not dark)

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: white wire should go to S terminal vice I terminal.
    [​IMG]

    Duraspark troubleshooting guide



    If you want MSD with the DS pick up!!!

    [​IMG]



    HEI trouble shooting



    Distr pick up coil

    Ignition coil




    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For Fuel Injection here is the wiring diagram to connect your DS conversion to the 8 pin EST.
    Thanks to Brendan for the diagram.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    HEI trouble shooting


    Note: When setting the timing for the first time you must ensure the wiring is correct on the ignition module. The 2 wires from the pickup in the distr must be connected to the proper terminal, P and N on the module. To verify they are correct:
    A. Set engine to TDC compression stroke. For IH use #8 for V8s and #1 for 4 cyls. For all other makes use the correct plug.
    B. Remove the cap and verify the rotor phasing is correct IAW the distr conversion thread. Rotor should be just past center of the cap terminal in the direction of rotation(clockwise for IH) and the reluctor should be lined up.
    C. Connect timing light and disconnect the timing bypass connector if EFI.
    D. Crank engine to check timing. If the wires are connected properly then the timing will be within 5* of 0*. Just set timing to 0 and your good. If the timing is 20-30* away then swap the P and N wires and check again.



     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2014
  2. Dave Clifton

    Dave Clifton Farmall Cub

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    So if I'm going with GM EFI, this is the way to go right? Will it plug right into an existing connector on the GM EFI harness??

    Still working out the details...

    Thanks.
     
  3. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Nope, these are for the DS conversion that is not for the EFI.

    When you do the conversion for the FI you just hook the purple wire to the P and the orn wire to the N terminal of the 8 pin ESTign module that you mount on a plate next to the coil.
    The black wire goes to gnd.

    I'll Add the EFI diagram and connections. Check back in a few!!! ;)
     
  4. Dave Clifton

    Dave Clifton Farmall Cub

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    Bill, are the Duraspark distributors common across the entire Ford V8 line? Will one from a 302 have the correct baseplate?

    Dave
     
  5. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    As long as it is a duraspark and not a TFI, you are fine.
    The TFI will have the ignition module mounted on the side of the distr.

    I have used 302, 351, and 460 DS distr parts!!
     
  6. terryd

    terryd Binder Driver

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    What is the correct value for the ballast resistor?
    3.2 ohm (acording to the counter clown) or the more common 1.2 ohm?
    Maybe I missed it here somewhere...
     
  7. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    What system are you running?
    What coil are you running?

    You only need the ballast resistor if you are still using a coil that ran a ballast resistor.
    I ran the later epoxy coils and no ballast resistor.

    If you converted from a points system and kept the original coil then you will need to keep the ballast resistor.

    There may be more than one resistance value based on the application.
     
  8. terryd

    terryd Binder Driver

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    sorry, running the DS system.
    Wired as pictured in the first wiring diagram in this thread.
    Using the parts called out here also.
    Smoked one module already.
     
  9. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Here is some good troubleshooting and diagrams.
    It appears the 76 system used a ballast resistor and the 78 and up did not.


    DS trouble shooting

    It also appears there is a wiring error on the second diagram with red and white going to the Run circuit.
    It will probably work but may not be the best way to wire it.
     
  10. terryd

    terryd Binder Driver

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    well, the module listed here is after 76, so I'm guessing the correct answer is:
    No resistor???
     
  11. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    All the diagrams I have seen only show the resistor going to the coil so it doesn't affect the voltage to the module it's self.
    So I do not see the ballast resistor being a factor.

    Are you running the module with the blue strain relief?

    The number one killer of modules I have seen is the grounds (or lack of).

    Just double check the
    bat to engine
    engine to frame,
    engine to body,
    body to frame.
    And the most important is the module to whatever it is mounted on.

    Have you already performed the test in the link?
     
  12. terryd

    terryd Binder Driver

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    Yes, the module has the blue strain relief.
    good grounds with NEW braided straps everywhere.

    We're weekend warriors here, Haven't done anything yet.
    Looking for info B-4 going into battle.

    Thanks for the info, I'll let you know who wins...
     
  13. terryd

    terryd Binder Driver

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    well, it was a long, frustrating, hard fought battle, but WE won. Here's what we learned:
    NAPA ingition modules are garbage!

    Napa module #1 lasted 50 miles and failed
    Napa module #2 was defective right out of the box.
    Module #3 ($5 at pick-a-part) works perfectly!

    I'll let you know how it all plays out...
     
  14. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Well I sure hope it last longer than the first 2!!!!

    If you keep having problems maybe the next trip to the JY pick up a GM 4 wire module!!
    It's the only part that is different!
     
  15. Will Marsh

    Will Marsh Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The HEI-4 modules are only ~$13 at Autozone with a Lifetime warranty. I'd just get one there, and if you fry it, go get another one. :D Make sure you get it mounted to something that will act as a heatsink, though. I used a piece of flat bar.

    HTH,
     
  16. terryd

    terryd Binder Driver

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    So all I need to change is the module? I can use the same coil and dist innards?
    That would be a no brainer! The DS module is $30 for the econo and $96 for the premium at Napa.
    The $5 JY special is still working, but I don't have a lot of faith in it.
     
  17. Will Marsh

    Will Marsh Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Terry, I still have a blue grommet DS box in the garage you can have for the cost of shipping. It was a spare I had way back when I was running Fords, and I'll never use it.

    PM me if you're interested and we'll work out the details.
     
  18. Tshark299

    Tshark299 Farmall Cub

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    I'm running a 4-pin HEI module with a DuraSpark distributer and TFI coil on my AMC I6. The only complaint I have about the HEI module is that it does not retard the spark during cranking like the DS module does (that's what its white wire going to the starter solenoid tells it to do).

    The problem I have now is that somtimes when cranking one cylinder will fire before the others catch, which due to the advanced timing will fight against the starter by kicking back, sometimes stalling the starter motor for a second before it continues cranking.

    About a month after switching from the DS module to the HEI, my battery died in mid-crank at a gas station. One of the kick backs shorted it internally. I replaced the battery and later that week the starter died when I was trying to leave work :mad:. Push started it in the parking lot, replaced the starter, and decided to retard the timing until it started smoothly. Only problem now is that the timing is too low for the engine to operate efficiently... poor gas mileage, big loss of power across all RPMs.

    After about 3 weeks I couldn't take driving a gas-guzzling slug anymore and advanced the timing again... a week later my replacement starter died!

    So I replaced that one under warrantee, reduced the timing but not as much as before, and I think I found a tolerable compromise... the starter will let me know for sure in the near future.

    Anyone else have problems like this??

    I can't wait to go EFI and not have to deal with this anymore!
     
  19. Tshark299

    Tshark299 Farmall Cub

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    My '87 AMC 258 I6 with factory DuraSpark ignition uses a resistance wire to feed the coil. I removed it when I switched to the HEI module. I read on the Jeep boards that even though the resistor only goes to the coil, it does in fact affect the module. Something about when the coil gets a full 12V it puts out more voltage to the plugs, but this puts alot more strain on the DS module, which could cause it to burn up. I read about alot of people who pulled the resistors out of their CJs only to go through DS modules pretty quick.

    I was trying to find the threads I read this in, but jeepforum's search feature is currently down while they upgrade their servers.
     
  20. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Sounds like you were trying to run a lot of timing on your motor. I would not think that would happen if you were running stock specs.

    The position of the rotor in the cap should determine which plug is getting fire. You would have to be a long way away to hit the cyl before!

    AFAIK none of the stock IH ign systems retard timing during starting.
    So any add on ign should function the same.


    But I would like to find more info on the ballast resistor.
    That could be useful.
    I have seen a couple diagrams for the TFI and some guys run a resistor with the coil and others don't. Most say they have no problems either...but there is always someone who had a problem.
     

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