Ideal lift method for running 33’s

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Rollercam, Aug 14, 2018.


  1. Rollercam

    Rollercam Farmall Cub

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    I would like to gather some opinions as to the best method to lift my ‘78 scout II so that I can comfortably run 33’s. For the purposes of this post, let’s assume we are starting with a bone stock scout. I will not be doing any hardcore wheeling, but I may do some occasional “spirited” driving. However, most of my driving will be on paved roads with my wife and kids. So, comfort and safety are important.

    I would like to see some different options from mild to wild and from budget friendly to blank check. Please list the pros and cons of each method.




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  2. winchested

    winchested Y-Block King

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    Budget friendly: rough country or
    skyjacker soft ride 4" spring only lift.

    Skyjacker will ride better but bit Mor money. You will likely have to put in new shackles as well. Stay under 4".

    Under $1500

    Not so budget friendly:
    CPT spring over kit with reverse shackle install this nets you 5-6.5" lift. 5 or 6" shackles. Lots of fab work and welding required.
    (this is the route I went)

    $2500-3000

    Even less budget friendly:

    CPT deluxe long travel SOA kit with long travel 2.5" front springs and long travel driveshaft.

    $4500+

    Sky's the limit:

    D and C 4 link with your sky's the limit coil overs!

    Huge $!
     
  3. Rollercam

    Rollercam Farmall Cub

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    Thanks for the response.

    My understanding is that the 4” Spring only lifts are pretty rough riding.

    I have received a previous recommendation of using the 2.5” RC Springs (evidently they are much softer) and a 1” body lift for a total of around 3.5”. I am not a huge fan of body lifts, but maybe I could live with just a 1” body lift. I have also been told by several folks that there does not seem to be a huge real world difference in lift height between the 2.5” and the 4” lift springs.


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  4. Mark Aycock

    Mark Aycock High Wheeler

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    I lucked out and found a new, unused 4" Triangle suspension lift . It clears the 33's fine. Much better than the old Superlift 4" suspension lift.
     
  5. joewatkins

    joewatkins Farmall Cub

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    Spring over axle lift. Do the cut and turn on the knuckles and it will drive better and ride basicly stock being as you keep the stock springs. Do the homework on this one though as other things such as steering need addressed
     
  6. sabercat

    sabercat Farmall Cub

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    do some more research
    you have two choices 1 spring over axle (soa) or 2 spring under axle (sua)
    i like the idea of spring over you can keep stock springs and get 4-6 inch of lift but there is alot of work to get there (this is route im going)
    search out bill hamilton articles such as http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/index.php?resources/leaf-spring-update-rebuild.33/
    and
    http://www.justinternationals.org/Binder-Bench/showthread.php?t=2858&highlight=soa+bronco

    and http://www.cutandturn.com/


    there is a comprise on front axle with just spring lift (sua) you have caster or pinion angle not both unless you cut and turn
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  7. fredsterra

    fredsterra Y-Block King

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    You can run 33" stock as long as you don't turn too sharp. And body bushings are good. But odds are they are not. A poly body bushing kit will get you about 1/2" and you can install 1" body lift "pucks" pretty easy. Just be sure a adjust your fan shroud. That would be the cheapest way. And there are a couple of very good post on doing body bushing replacements.

    Keeping in mind 31" are fine stock. You need to get about 2" of lift.

    You can do shackles IHPA makes a very nice set. But you will need 4" extended shackles to gain 2". And then you will need to wedge your front springs to correct the front axle. Or it will become a terrifying experience to drive! But you will need to remove the front springs and replace the tie bolt along with the wedge. And strongly suggest new u-bolts!
     
  8. Mark Aycock

    Mark Aycock High Wheeler

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    Oh, I forgot to say that I have 1980 axles on my '78 Scout.
     
  9. joewatkins

    joewatkins Farmall Cub

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    Good deal on the 80 axles. Lucky
     
  10. David Banner

    David Banner High Wheeler

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    There's "bone stock" in great condition and there's bone stock in 40yrs worn out and then some...
    Fresh body mounts might seem like a 1" body lift if yours are as worn as mine were...
    My 4" skyjacker springs ride quite nicely I think and they've held up to the snowplow and the years very well.
    I used 4 degree shims to restore/improve my steering with the lift. It points my front pinion towards the dirt but my u-joints don't bind. Maybe the shaft would vibrate if I was driving 80mph in 4wd...
    Your axle will have 2 degrees built in so you probably wouldn't need shims as big as mine to correct your steering.
    31" tires have taken me everywhere the limitations of a carb will allow me to go. 33" tires will adversely affect your braking and mpg and the higher CG will do nothing for cornering safely either... Oh, they'll cost more too...
    Quality shocks to match the spring-rate of the springs and ride quality you want will make a huge difference too.
     
  11. Darrel

    Darrel Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    You can get the ride/performance you want without the expense or difficulty of SOA. Best bang for buck (level 1) I would go with off the shelf 2 inch springs (Skyjacker or RC), body lift, and the best shocks you can afford (minimum Bilstein 5100s). Patrick Morris has posted some great info on Bilstein 7100 shocks. The next step up (level 2) I would weigh your Scout and order custom springs and Bilstein 7100 or Fox 2.0 shocks. Level 3, I would add reverse shackle and aftermarket sway bars. You'll get 90% of the performance and comfort with level 1 though for a lot less money.
     
  12. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Thanks Darrel. Yeah Rollercam, I was going to say that not enough people seem to think about the shocks, just the springs when the "but how will it ride?" questions come up. Good shocks properly valved for your vehicle will make a huge improvement for the better. They aren't cheap though. For nice, revalvable/tunable/rebuildable shocks you will need to consider $600-800 extra in the budget.

    Another thing to consider with 33s, in case it's not been covered above, is lowered and more heavy duty bump stops. You will find that even just 33s will rub like SOBs against sheet metal when the axles get crossed up at all. That's unless you have a TON of lift (think spring-over), done major surgery to your wheel wells and surrounding metal, or dropped your bumps stops way down.

    Rollercam: For clarification, Fred means ADDING 4" to the stock shackles' length. So 7" shackles, which is absurdly long. I doubt any reputable company sells them. And I don't think they make shims angled enough to deal that that kind of caster problem.
     
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  13. tahoedonner

    tahoedonner Binder Driver

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    I’ll vote for 4” Skyjacker spring under lift with Bilstein shocks all around and CPT heavy duty shackles and spring plates. All new bushings and body mount rubber as well. Might need shims to correct angles for shackles. Extended brake lines as well.

    Next step would be a reverse shackle but a bit more cash than your standard lift method mentioned above.
     
  14. Rollercam

    Rollercam Farmall Cub

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    Patrick,

    I am all for getting the right shocks, but how do I know or even go about getting “properly valved” shocks for my vehicle? I know that spring rate, vehicle weight, etc. all play a role. If I understand things correctly, a bilstein 5100 may need to be valved differently for a 4” rough country spring versus a 4” skyjacker spring. Is that correct?

    How does a person know what specs to give to the shock company? Are there any off the shelf shocks from the likes of bilstein or fox that work in the stock mounting locations of a scout II? I think proper shocks are worth the investment when set up correctly, I just can never figure out exactly what I need. Would a “properly valved” bilstein 5100 work for my application or would I be better off going with a 7100 or fox 2.0 right from the get go?
     
  15. 72soa

    72soa Binder Driver

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    SOA. I went through this with my son's truck and went SOA. 33s fit and work great with the SOA arrangement. The SOA is a fair amount of work but the results are worth it. I go with a cross over steering utilizing machined Chevy knuckles. D/C in Colorado can help you on this or Paul at RMQM also in Colorado. With the SOA you dial in the correct castor/driveshaft angles and you are done. You will also need a new/lengthened rear propeller shaft. Longer shocks are needed as well. There is a ton of little stuff needed like extended brake lines, new brakes, new ball joints. All of this adds up but should be replaced no matter which way you go.
     
  16. fredsterra

    fredsterra Y-Block King

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    Correct, He will need them 4" (longer) to get 2" THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP. And will take a HUGE amount for caster to make it drive half way right! For an off road rig it's OK BUT NOT FOR HIGHWAY! I tried them on mine and drove maybe 60 miles and took them off!

    And when I test drove my wife's Scout the PO had installed some 7" shackles and 3" body lift for the 33" tires. As soon as I could I removed the body lift, stock front shackles and put 6* caster wedges in it. And P255-70R-15 tires and it drives and tracks like a dream! Hers is a 4X2 so no front diff and U-Joint to deal with!
     
  17. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    You actually have some wiggle room with shock valving. But generally with a vehicle like a Scout, which has leaf springs and is kinda on the heavy-ish side, light on compression and heavy on rebound will give you a super nice ride on pavement. I have found with my Bilstein 7100s that their 255/70 valving works well enough on the front. I started with this valving at the rear as well, but found it not to work so well. Had to soften compression and increase rebound. Now it's fine. And a major improvement in overall ride from the R9000s I used for years.

    But after playing with mine a little bit, and having friends (one with a Scout II) who swapped from R9000s to Fox 2.0s, if I had to do it again I would get Fox 2.0s, the rebuildable type. The valving configuration is just easier to understand. For Fox, if you ordered their 40/70 valving all around you would probably be happy. I don't have time to got into it more right now. Gotta head out to work. But if you search for posts by me with key words "Fox" or "7100" you can read more.
     
  18. Darrel

    Darrel Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Rollercam,
    How heavy will your Scout be? Travel or soft top, cage, aftermarket bumpers? Spare inside or on the rear bumper?
     
  19. Mark Pietz

    Mark Pietz High Wheeler

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    What #number for those? Not the reservoir units, I hope.
     
  20. tahoedonner

    tahoedonner Binder Driver

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    The valving on the Bilstein 5100’s that IH Parts sells, in my opinion, is great. I love the ride from my skyjackers and those shocks.
     

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