!!Help!! Wrenchman or someone else - CLUTCH problems

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by TheScoutMaster, Sep 7, 2008.


  1. TheScoutMaster

    TheScoutMaster High Wheeler

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    First I want to say a BIG THANKYOU to Wrenchman and those others who helped me while I rebuilt my engine!!!

    Here is what I found that might help others - the replacement oil pan for the AMC 258 is stamped in CHINA and I had a hell of a time getting the holes and bolts to line up. Then when I started the engine I hear this bad noise towards number six cylinder. After inspection I found that the rear pan lip is not stamped straight - figures - and the small inspection plate for the flywheel was being pushed out by the crooked lip into the fly wheel. I had to use some tin snips to cut a little bit away.

    Also - after break in I find that I have around 40 psi at idle - is that good?

    Ok here is the BIGGY!!! The douche bags who rebuilt my clutch and pressure plate apparently did not do it right. I have the TO bearing all the way against the clutch fingers and it will still not engage - grinds. In fact by bottoming out the clutch pedal the linkage rod comes forward and kicks the gas pedal arm out increasing the idle speed - took me a while to figure that one out. After inspecting the clutch through the inspection window it looks like the PP fingers do not come all the way up, but are about half way down. I believe this is the problem and I also believe that my old PP fingers were all the way up.

    I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO TEAR THIS @%&! back down and pull the tranny!!!!! Is there ANYTHING I can do to adjust the fingers while it is in? I was looking at the three knurled nuts that hold screws in place on the PP body. Do these control the finger depth? If so can I mark each nut with the PP housing and then do one complete revolution, then turn the PP and do the next? If so how many turns can I do? If so do I have to worry about too much adjustments where the clutch PP does not grip the clutch disk? Also, if this is possible do you turn them clockwise or counterclockwise?

    Tomorrow I plan on giving the rebuilding shop a piece of my mind?!?!?!:gun_bandana:


    THANKS for all the help - I will get her running again!!!!!!!!
     
  2. WRENCH MAN

    WRENCH MAN Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Your oil pressure is good, 40 PSI hot idle is real good!

    Your clutch won't "engage"??, did the cover go right down against the flywheel or did it pull down a little bit with the bolts? or alot!? sounds like you have the disk in backwards if it grinding?

    You cant adjust the PP while its installed, you cant really adjust them at all, and on those three nut a little goes a LONG! way, one turn may very well undo them completely!? puss they are staked to prevent them from coming loose!
     
  3. TheScoutMaster

    TheScoutMaster High Wheeler

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    I actually used wood dowels to take the load off of the PP assembly when installing. There was no pulling down with the bolts. The disk is in correctly because I can see the sticker that says towards PP. The fingers are almost half way down and I believe this is the problem.
     
  4. TheScoutMaster

    TheScoutMaster High Wheeler

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    Hmmm, are you sure that those nuts can not be taken off and new ones put on and then turned to bring the fingers up? I was looking at a diagram of the Borg beck three finger PP and it seems that those screws only adjust the height of the fingers and nothing else, as the end caps control the PP surface depth. Does that sound right?

    If it is possible, and I'm thinking of giving it a try - have nothing to lose, and would have to tear the thing down again and make the company fix it right - then could I measure the distance of the outer PP housing to the end of the finger, or just keep track of how many turns I turn each screw - which in theory (if I turn each screw lets say 1 complete revolution) would yeild consistant results of depth.

    It looks like the nuts/screws have been punched, I wonder how hard it would be to break these loose?

    Thanks!1
     
  5. TheScoutMaster

    TheScoutMaster High Wheeler

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    OK, this is F'ing going south!!!:gun_bandana:

    I just got off of the phone with the parts store who called the rebuilder, and the rebuilder is saying its my fault?! ***!?!?!?

    I explained to the parts guy its not my fault and that the fingers were in a compressed fashion before mounting it onto the flywheel, and they are still in a compressed manner, not allowing the disk to completely disengage.

    The builder wants to charge me more $$$ (the rebuild was already at $200.00). No F'ing way!!! I told the parts guy if anything I deserve a partial refund due to the fact that I am having to pull the tranny again!!!

    I think I will be taking pictures of the installed PP and uninstalled PP for proof. If this goes south I will be contacting my CC company and disputing the charges.

    Does anyone have pictures or specs for the 10.5" Borg Beck PP and disk for a '74 SII with AMC 258 and T-18 tranny so that I can show this idiot monkeys?????? THANKS!!!
     
  6. nekbinders

    nekbinders Binder Driver

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    I have a 258 in the barn with clutch and PP on it. Was for a 3 spd but I am sure it looks the same. Heck it might be pretty new. Have not removed it to check it out. Might be a cheaper option for you. I'll get some pix if I can locate the camera.

    Dan
    Northeast Kansas Binders
     
  7. nekbinders

    nekbinders Binder Driver

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    Ok, I checked out mine. I noticed that the release arms moved quite a bit when removing and reinstalling the clutch. I measure 1/2" from edge of PP to top of bolt head on the arm. I have pix, can email to you. PM me your email address and I'll get them to you. Mine is not too good. Would need rebuilt also, looks like had a oil leak at one time.

    Dan
     
  8. TheScoutMaster

    TheScoutMaster High Wheeler

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    It sounds like you have the Rockford clutch, and not the Borg Beck? My Bork Beck does not have bolts on the fingers, just smooth fingers.

    It looks like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  9. WRENCH MAN

    WRENCH MAN Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Here is the IH/AMC 10.4" BORG & BECK clutch.
    photo #
    1, flywheel side of disk
    2, PP side of disk
    3, cover photo
    4, disk and cover on flywheel, free/unloaded (disregard crank position sensor lugs)
    5, loaded, note arm position.
     

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  10. WRENCH MAN

    WRENCH MAN Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Here are the two types of arm lever screws that I'm aware of, the first is the IH/AMC PP, you can see the nut staked into the flat spot on the screw, the second is the more typical style, you can see the stake mark on the lower left and this one has been in fact spot welded!
    The first style you may get a turn??????, the second you WON'T!, IIRC you must back them off, CCW to raise them?
     

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  11. TheScoutMaster

    TheScoutMaster High Wheeler

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    OK, thanks!!!

    As a side does this sound like the PP was not reman'd right? The PP springs, without engaging the TO bearing, look almost all the way compressed - very little spacing between the coils. Also, the finger body is a little over 1/2 inches below the PP housing input hole. The TO bearing face - to finger contact is about 3/8 of an inch below the PP housing input hole. This seems WAY OFF to me. That along with the fact that the PP springs look almost all the way compressed without engaging the TO bearing. Thoughts? Thanks!!!
     
  12. TheScoutMaster

    TheScoutMaster High Wheeler

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    Bump for Wrenchman - does the measurements I took seem out of wack? Trying to get things smoothed out with the rebuild shop and I would like to sound somewhat intelligent - :wheelchair: Thanks!!!
     

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