Grinding in my transfer case when coasting??????

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by kcooper936, Apr 30, 2007.

  1. kcooper936

    kcooper936 Farmall Cub

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    So I just recently bought my first scout II and I love it. I bought it for a toy and just something to work on. Being a 79 its given me plenty to do, my problem is Im not really familiar with the mechanics hopefully you guys can help me get this thing working right. Ive got the 345 with the 4 speed manual. 6in lift 35's So far it seems to run great, but one the highway after about 35mph or so when ever i let off the gas the transfer case makes a grinding noise. The faster I go the loader the grinding is when i let off the gas. Also when coasting it doesnt help to put the tranny in Neutral, but if the Transfer case is put in to Neutral, the noise stops. I have a few Ideas on what it could be But if anyone has had this problem before or knows what it might be please let me know.
     
  2. 250gibson

    250gibson Binder Driver

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    You probabally need to add or better yet if you don't know the last time it was done, change the fluid in your TC.
     
  3. thehud

    thehud High Wheeler

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    It could be a bearing on the bottom shaft of the tranny as well, not just the TC.
     
  4. Gary Billings

    Gary Billings Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Are you sprung-over?

    -Gary
     
  5. kcooper936

    kcooper936 Farmall Cub

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    yes have a spring over
     
  6. Gary Billings

    Gary Billings Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    All 3 of my SOA Scouts do that. I've just learned to deal with it and adjust my driving style.

    -Gary
     
  7. kcooper936

    kcooper936 Farmall Cub

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    do u think its just because of the drive shaft angle?
     
  8. Justin

    Justin Farmall Cub

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    Does it do this when the hubs are unlocked (front driveshaft not moving)?

    If not - probably something to do with the bearing at the front drive output. My Scout did this - it got better with a fluid change, but didn't go away entirely.

    When I swapped trannys, I swapped x-fer cases too, the new one didn't do it.

    6" is a lot of lift. A CV joint at the transfer case end of the front driveshaft may help - or just don't drive down the road with your hubs locked.
     
  9. kcooper936

    kcooper936 Farmall Cub

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    I dont drive with the HUBs locked. The front drive shaft doesnt move. It mainly does it when i am over about 35mph and i take my foot off the gas. (coasting) If I put the tranny in Neutral it will do it too. If I put the xcase in N then it stops. I think it may have some thing to do internally, cause the rear shaft still spins when xcase is in N right? I am really trying to avoid taking it to a $75 hr mech. so it anyone has any Ideas please let me know thanks. :)
     
  10. stefen bolander

    stefen bolander Farmall Cub

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    A good place to start is pulling the pan and looking for worn out gears. Look for shavings in the bottom of the pan, pitted gear teeth, etc. If the teeth are worn, you can always try putting some heavier gear oil in it, but that is definately a temporary fix. If the teeth are worn badly, then when under high load in 4 low off road it will probably pop out of gear; something that can be dangerous. Pulling the covers off all drivetrain componets is a good thing to do with any IH when you first get it anyway.

    My brother-in-law has an 800 with a spring over and it doesn't make any gear noise. It also has a freshly rebuilt drive train, and the rear axle's pinion is pointed right up at the transfercase.
     
  11. kcooper936

    kcooper936 Farmall Cub

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    are the gears or bearing if worn something that can be replaced fairly easily?
     
  12. thehud

    thehud High Wheeler

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    It still sounds to me like the lower shaft in the transmission. Case in point:

    1) It makes noise while coasting in neutral with the transfercase in gear, means the the transfercase and the tansmission output shaft are turning. The rear driveline is also turning.

    2) No noise when the transfer case is in neutral, meaning that the output shaft of the transmission is not turning; however the drive line and the output of the transfer case are still turning.

    I would suspect a bearing on the output shaft of the transmission, I don't recall any gears other than first and reverse idler being meshed in the tranny while in neutral.

    It could still be from excessive backlash in the transfer case, but I can't recall ever coming across that with a Dana 20.


    The output shaft bearings are not too difficult, but it would really help if you have some mechanical knowledge.



    First things first, check the oil level in the transmission.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2007
  13. Architectdave

    Architectdave High Wheeler

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    You could try stoping on a hill, putting the tcase in Neutral and the trans in gear and coasting don hill see if it still grinds?
     
  14. Afireinside2285

    Afireinside2285 High Wheeler

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    I'm having the exact same problem.Mine sounds like a bad u-joint but mine are brand new and so is the diff and t-case oil.I never even thought about the tranny.Guess what im doing tomarrow?
    I have read many of the oil threads and i'm not trying to start an oil war in this thread but should I track down some mineral oil or should I just use valv.50wt.
    I would really like to cure this problem so i'm gonna tear into the t-19 tomarrow.I will keep you guys updated on the results.
     
  15. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Not to be rude, but Hehehehe ~ Man you'll never guess why I use CV shafts on all my SOA now.

    Go on, guess... YUP ~ its this very problem.

    When doing an SOA you are supposed to make sure your angles are 100% right? Well, that works well and you normally can't FEEL the vibrations of the rear driveline. HOWEVER, the t-case has a fork in there that has about a .001" clearance inside the case. Normally, under load (aka acceleration or deceleration), that peice is against something and can't rattle, but when not under load, it can float ~ which means the slightest vibration in the shaft causes it to rattle, not all the time, just when your transissioning the throttle, like when you're maintaining speed and the throtttle naturally transissions from power to coast, or coast to decelerate.

    The first Scout that did this was Old Blue (see photo galleries on my page) ~ we had everything done (gears/lockers) and some 2.5" alcans w/ SOA. It was noticable, VERY noticable. I thought immediately the t-case was on the virge of blowing up and took the problem to my t-case/axle/trans rebuilder. He described exactly what was going on and when I confirmed it, he said it was normal ~ that his does it and to get used to it. He told me what was going on, and beleive it or not, there is no damage being done by this rattle. I was a little miffed and decided that I couldn't possibly send SOA jobs out with a new rattle ~ its just too annoying and if you're going to pay to have it done right, rattles were not apart of the equation. The only cure I've found personally is running a CV shaft in back, and now you know all my suspension work is done SOULY to CV shafts.

    Things that make it worse: There are two big things that will really make it worse.
    1) First, re-using old driveshafts. Remember, the slip in a driveshaft can make it vibrate. If there is play in the slip, it can make this noise/rattle worst. Old, dry and worn joints at the ends of your shaft can also make it worse. Even if you got the angles 100%, if the joints and slip are not 100%, you can get vibrations.
    2) The second thing that can make this bad is the t-case. If its old and worn and the oil hasn't been changed much, this can make it worse. Remember new oil doesn't make a t-case go from bad to good. The older the case is, the worse this rattle can be.

    Things that can make it better:
    There are a few things you can do ~ unfortunatly they mean $$. Rebuild your case with new bearings and seals. Make sure its tight and clean. Changing the oil in old cases helps but barely. I would try some Lucas Oil Stabilizer in there to make things gewy. That can help keep the rattleing member stuck to something that isn't rattling. ;)
    REBUILD YOUR DRIVESHAFT. Take it and get the splines looked at, if they are worn out or have excessive play, replace it. If the splines are worn out in one spot, have the shaft guy lengthen/shorten it so that you don't use that part of the splines during normal driving. Replace your u-joints ~ this isn't the same thing as greasing them. Replace them. Also, make sure your shaft is balanced ~ expecially if its a rear shaft.

    Unfortunately these things, although costly, will not guarentee your rattle will go away or even lessen. Sorry. There is only one way to rid yourself of the problem permanently.

    Things that make it go away permanently:
    Setting up for a CV driveshaft and then buying one ;) NEW AND BALANCED. If you don't have the $325 it costs for a brand new CV shaft, then you can also go to the junk yard and get a 1310 CV for Chevy's (1/2 ton full-size pickups and blazers) fords and jeeps (particularly the front shaft from a Jeep XJ/MJ ~ those boxy rigs from 84-2001) and have them rebuilt and lengthened. Make sure you BALANCE YOUR REAR SHAFT.

    Guys I hope this helps. There are tons of little things that go on in an SOA that I do to eliminate these problems. I learned them just like you do many years ago. Now you know why guys who boast of a super cheap SOA with nothing more than a pair of perches are normally laughed at. If you do it right, it can costs money in parts and your time. But the end result is that these little annoyances will be minimized if not elliminated.

    I won't turn this into a parts cost discussion ~ but suffice it to say, I've had this problem in the past. If its the rattle I've described, then you are not in danger of damaging anything but your patience and ability to tune things out. Good luck.

    EDIT: I have edited my post. You may want to re-read it to make sure you didn't miss something I added.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2007
  16. kcooper936

    kcooper936 Farmall Cub

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    thanks for all the helpful info
     
  17. TheScoutMaster

    TheScoutMaster High Wheeler

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    Did the previous owner change out the gears to larger ones? The reason I ask is that I did on my dana 20 and had to grind out the inner xfer case walls with a die grinder to fit the oversized gear in. It cleared when hand spun and assembled, but it seems to slightly rattle/"grind" when in neutral. Seems the outer edge of the gear slightly rubs/vibrates against the wall when in neutral. It works and I have no intention of ripping it apart again ;)
     
  18. Darel

    Darel High Wheeler

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    I've had this problem in a couple different Scouts with a couple different causes:

    1. '67 800, tired poppet springs on t-case shifters.

    2. '77 II, bad main bearings

    Let's not beat around the bush, pull the trans and t-case and rebuild them with new bearings (brass optional and probably not necessary). It'll cost you a lot of time and a couple hundred bucks but if it hasn't been done already it probably needs it anyway. This is probably still cheaper and easier than re-engineering someone else's suspension nightmare.
     
  19. HarvesterQueen

    HarvesterQueen Farmall Cub

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    Hello, I read through these post and Im dealing with the same sort of thing. I have some questions though if you dont mind.

    I recently got a new balanced drive shaft (drivelines NW) for the front (non-cv) the old one had a broken weld and didnt work. Now my transfer case is grinding. Never in first gear though. I put my had on the tcase shifter and I can feel thats where the grinding coming from.

    When I unlocked my hubs it made it worse, now grinds constantly once in 2nd-3rd gear, sometimes loader than others.

    It NEVER did this before I got the new driveshaft, even when I had the tcase in 4wd.

    I got new tires and the driveshaft at about the same time, and noticed some vibrations, but it is much worse now.

    You guys mentioned that it could be the rear driveline causing the grinding (which has a CV joint on my truck) can it also be caused by the front?

    Do you think its safe to drive it?

    oh also, my truck is soa +1" shackles cv joint rear. 440 ci with a chrysler tranny and dana 20 dont know if this makes any difference. Tranny shifts great and im not noticing any lack of power.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!
     
  20. 1977ScoutII

    1977ScoutII High Wheeler

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    My buddy just noticed his Scout making one heck of a noise. Here is the situation.

    1977 Scout II, 304sv, 727 TF, Dana 20 TC, SOA

    Scout Running, brakes on, in 2wd/4wd high / or 4wd low, Hubs unlocks, in drive or reverse, sounds like a great deal or grinding coming from the area between the TC and Transmission. I want to rule out the TC because the Scout is not in motion but is in gear.

    It was wheeled pretty hard, then driven home, about 1 mile, no problem noticed at the time. Two days later he went to move it and noticed this. Any ideas?
     

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