GM Column Wiper switch in a Scout II

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by steven73, May 1, 2015.


  1. steven73

    steven73 Farmall Cub

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    I am planning to swap a GM tilt, auto column shift column into my 73 Scout II.
    One big hurdle I have finally concurred is the wiper switch.

    I have spent Many evenings searching for info on wiring the GM wiper switch to a non-GM motor. IH forums, Jeep forums, hot-rodding forums, every type of GM style vehicle forum you can think of. it would seem pretty easy at first glance, but not all wiper motors and switches are created equal. I did lots of searching and inquiring and never found a definitive answer on how to make this work with a Scout II wiper motor.

    But i finally got it to work. This is a hot mess of relays and wires, but it works. While i do not yet have the column mounted in my rig, I was able to test the wiper switch and my relay contraption successfully. Park, low, High and washer all work from the stalk. Alas, the delay function does not. I have the delay box from the donor GM truck but this still eludes me.

    Feel free to use this info at your own risk. better yet, study it and figure out how i can simply this assortment of components that rivals the 1950's time circuit repair strapped to the hood of the DeLoren in Back to the Future part III.

    Some of the invaluable info i learned in my research:
    • Scout II wiper motor uses one hot wire to "run" the motor (high), and a second hot wire to "limit" the motor speed for low. Ive lost track of the reference post on this forum with that info.
    • GM column switch and GM motor original design does not send power to motor as the Scout II switch does, The GM switch provides varied paths from the hot wires coming from the motor through the switch and to ground. The Scout II switch has a hot wire connected that sends 12V+ to different legs of the motor in certain positions, with the ground taking place through the wiper motor to chassis ground
    • not all GM column multifunction switches are created equal. Low setting on one switch might provide a ground path between a certain pair of wires on one switch, and different pair on another. This was what was most frustrating, as i had several circuits that should have worked according to switch diagrams. I finally just used my multimeter to find continuity to ground at different switch positions.
    • I realize that in my picture, i have pin 85 and pin 86 labeling swapped on my relays. but you get the idea. it doesn't matter the direction on the relay, unless your relay has a diode b/t those pins.
    If you are not sure exactly how relays work and the different types available, (like me, at first), i encourage you to go to www.the12volt.com and spend time checking it out.

    It will be several weeks before i attempt the actual column swap, but this is on major hurdle out of the way. Ill post up pics and progress reports.
     

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  2. Dogbert

    Dogbert Farmall Cub

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    This is of interest to me. I have nothing else to add at this time. Nice work.
     
  3. steven73

    steven73 Farmall Cub

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    Got the Chevy P/U column bolted in Today. Still have to fab up a steering shaft linkage, wire the wiper switch and connect the shifter. Couple of things I learned so far:
    • You have to use the Scout II Column mount on the GM Column. The GM mount is too deep and causes the column to hit the lower dash support.
    • I was able to pass the shifter arm through the Scout II firewall hole without cutting by bending it forward slightly.
    • Strip the GM column of the NSS, Ignition switch and dimmer switch before installation, they try to hang everything while mounting.
     

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  4. steven73

    steven73 Farmall Cub

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    Progress:
    A little surgery to the Steering Column turn signal connector to hook up to the Scout/EZ Wire harness end.
    Had to unbolt the column and drop down to hook up the 2 Ignition switch connectors, then bolt back in place. The GM Column has the switch mounted at 12 o'clock and it sits near the pedal bracket.
    I was unable to re-install the GM Column mounted Neutral Safety switch, too close to firewall. Oh well, the trans mounted one kinda works, sometimes...
    Hooked up battery and turned the key. Truck started up fine. all signals and horn work. column mounted dimmer switch works as well.

    Next items will be the wiper switch wiring so I can have column mounted wiper switch. Then Steering shaft fab.

    Ill soon have a Scout II wiper switch and Scout II steering column available. Wiper switch will be free, recipient pay shipping.
     
  5. David Banner

    David Banner High Wheeler

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    Did you consider not using the Scouts low speed hot wire at all. Only using power to the high speed hot wire from all the different settings (including the delay) with diodes on each wire to prevent feed back?
     
  6. steven73

    steven73 Farmall Cub

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    I did not. But That would have simplified things. Could eliminate the park and the low speed relay from my setup.
    I also tried to get the delay feature to work, but no dice. not sure if the control box from the donor truck is bad or i just didn't figure it out.
     
  7. Mark Pietz

    Mark Pietz High Wheeler

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    I've wanted to do this conversion for a very long time. I have a 1985 Jimmy and see the similarities in the columns. The delay feature is nice. A crazy thought here is this: Is there a way to replace the IH motor with the GM one? Not a direct swap of course but maybe the motor can be adapted somehow. That would solve all these troubles. Something for me to look into.
     
  8. steven73

    steven73 Farmall Cub

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    Ive not been able to get the delay portion to work. I got everything wired up according to my diagram and Low works fine, but when i turn switch to Hi, it stays on low. Ill re-check my wiring but it will do for now. Now my focus is steering shaft hook up.
     
  9. RD Durham

    RD Durham High Wheeler

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    There was a write up on the old Binder Bulletin many years ago about adding in a GM column, with the wiper switch on the column to a Scout II. Probably be difficult to find the thread after all these years. If I remember correctly it was an early 1980's steering column, with 1984 being the earliest I believe for a GM steering column with the multifunction switch. I don't remember if it had the delay function or not. I have seen one GM steering column in a Scout II in the past but didn't not get to talk to the owner. A GM wiper motor is a lot different from a Scout II motor. You could probably make it work but it would take a lot of fabricating for a mounting system.
     
  10. steven73

    steven73 Farmall Cub

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    I was able to find a steering shaft combo that seems like it will work. I took the upper part of an 2000 Safari Van steering shaft (1" GM DD collar x 3/4" DD shaft) and found a Sweet Mfg u-joint that is 13/16"-36 spine for the steering box and 3/4" DD collar end. Ill have to trim some length from the DD shaft, but I see no issue with getting it put together. I wont have a chance to start the shaft assembly and take pics until this weekend.

    Outstanding issues left to solve:
    • the Low speed when switch is on Hi speed issue. I know this setup works from my testing a while back so I'm guessing i just have a wire hooked up incorrectly or a relay not doing its thing properly. (if all else fails Ill do as David Banner suggested and eliminate low speed altogether, and simplify my relay contraption)
    • GM Column Shift hookup to the 727. Ive read there can be issues with selector spacing between one manufacturer's shifter and different manufacturer's trans. linkage detents.
    • Actually fitting my steering shaft together and bolting everything into place.
     
  11. steven73

    steven73 Farmall Cub

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    I was able to figure out my low/Hi speed issue...I had a one relay installed that i thought was a SPDT, but it was a Dual Make SPST. Swapped that out and all was good.
    The delay feature still eludes me. with the delay box installed from the donor truck, the wipers only work in low, and wont park until i twist the multi-function lever backward for "Mist". I can live without delay, but it will be a project for another day.

    Got the steering linkage hooked up, Locktite on set screws, and steering is tight!.
    All electrical functions are...functional.
    When i tried to line up steering wheel to center, i realized something was way off. In trying to hook up the horn plunger, the lock plate wouldnt install in the position I needed the cancelling cam to sit. I did have to disconnect the linkage and re-clock the steering shaft at the column, so the cancelling cam and lock plate would go back together. So great to have tilt, high-beam and wipers at my fingertips!

    Next up, Column shift linkage.
     

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  12. customtronic

    customtronic Farmall Cub

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    Great info. I see this mod in my near future.
     
  13. steven73

    steven73 Farmall Cub

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    Wow, I cant believe its been a year since i got the column installed. I got side tracked with life, then brake line leaks, fuel tank leaks, fuel line replacement and vapor chamber build.
    I bought the IDIDIT cable shift linkage kit for the 727 and hope to start this install in March. My fear is that i wont be able to match the GM column detents with the 727 transmission positions, that I'll get Drive dialed in at the right position, then Reverse wont match up, and so on...
    Anyone have experience matching one automakers stock shifter positions to another automakers transmission? Or is this a non-issue?
     
  14. scoutboy74

    scoutboy74 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    The detents will all be in the rooster comb inside the transmission. The marks on your column indicator may not line up perfectly, but should be close enuf fer gummint werk. You want Park and Low1 dialed in as those are the bookends in either direction. Once those are good, everything else will be too.
     
  15. Lister

    Lister Farmall Cub

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    Hi I am new to list and need help solving my Gm Column /1965 Ford wiper problem. I tried to copy your wiring diagram, but it would not work for me. I have a mid eighties Gm column with a Mist, off, low and high speed stalk. 4 wires Green low, red high, black ground?? and yellow power. . Very similar to the scout ii motor, Gm stalk has five wires pink washer,purple hispeed , gray lowspeed. white power, and (yellow park?) I have it hooked up with 3 SPDT relays and have Hi speed, low speed, washer and park functioning. The problem is that when the GM stalk is placed at off, I still have power to the green low speed wiper wire. if I try and relocate the wiper low speed green wire to another pin on the relay so that it will turn off when the stalk is in the off position I either lose the park function or the low speed function. If I leave the low speed green wire connected to power the wiper motor starts to get hot. To make all of this work, I am connecting 12 volts to the white wire on the GM stalk and using the Gm purple and gray wires to trigger the 85 and 86 pins. I am open to any advice .
    Thanks
     
  16. punjig

    punjig Farmall Cub

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    Not trying to Hy-Jack this thread, the fact is it was this Thread that inspired me to do convert my Scout over. I totally forgot to post back on here after I got the Write-Ups done on how to preform the GM Column swap I did.
    I did 2 Write-Up to try to make everything easy for us.
    The first Write-Up is to us a GM upper Tilt Column and merging it to the Scout's lower Column. Sounds harder then it actually is. Here is the Link:

    HOW-TO. Scout II Tilt Steering Column (GM Hybrid) Interchange

    I did another Write-Up on how to make the GM Wiper Switch work with FULL Functionality. Low/High/Pulse/Washer. Everything.
    This project was just a little more complicated to do, but I did it at home with just the basic tool we all have and a little. Here is the Link:

    HOW-TO. Scout Intermittent (Pulse) Wiper Motor with a GM (Saginaw) Steering Column Switch.

    I hope this helps.
     
  17. Lister

    Lister Farmall Cub

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    Hi Thanks for the quick response, but not enough info in your links to solve my problem. I have tried to use the relay schematic posted by Steven73, but no matter how I try to adapt it to my very similar project, I still ends up with all of the wiper functions working, high speed , low speed, park and washer , but with the GM switch in the off position, still have power on the green low speed wire going to the wiper motor causing it to heat up. If I try to relocate the green wire on another pin, I either lose the low speed or park function. Am I correct in assuming that all of the power to operate the GM stalk and the 2 speed Ford wiper motor come through the white wire on the GM stalk, which in turn sends power to the GM purple and gray GM relay trigger wires??
     
  18. punjig

    punjig Farmall Cub

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    Yes, the gm white wire at the steering column wires to the power supply (fuse) power then gets sent to the purple or grey depending on the position of the switch.

    IMHO (and it is what I did) the relay solution only a partial fix. That is why I posted from my write up, it give full functionality in a simple to replace parts in the future option. I too was half way into the relay option when I ditched the idea and set it up to work like the GMC donor truck, and the cost was less then buying relays. Of course all parts were from the pick a part.

    Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
     
  19. Lister

    Lister Farmall Cub

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    Thanks read your delay module solution, but I have to stick to the relay option for various reasons! I wonder if Steven 73 or David Banner are still active members?? I would like to have some more detail about their relay solution, which I assume must have solved my problem of not being able to maintain the fast slow park wash functions but not being able to stop current flow through the green low speed wire to the wiper motor when stalk is turned off without affecting the park or low speed functions! With the exception of this issue my gm stalk functions perfectly. As it standsI am only using the purple and gray wires on the gm switch. I see that the gray and yellow wires on the gm have continuity with stal on low speed , but only gray has continuity to current from white ignition wire??
     
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  20. punjig

    punjig Farmall Cub

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    I think I have a wiring diagram on that set up that I grabbed from a previous post. Not 100% sure. I will have to look and see if I can find something. I will let you know.

    Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
     

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