Fixing a leaky floor jack?

Discussion in 'The Tool Box' started by Patrick Morris, May 23, 2019.


  1. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Would there have been a small spring under the ball, to force it open and against which the valve stem/screw would push it closed?
    Did any of the sites have a diagram for that specific model showing such detail?
    I have removed balls from old ball bearing units, starting with from bicycle wheel bearings when a kid, so have various containers of such balls for emergencies like that. I have metal 3# coffee cans full of springs salvaged from all sorts of equipment, from printers to who-knows-what...
     
  2. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    No luck finding an exact match for the o-ring at Ace. They carry a large assortment of viton o-rings, but they are all SAE/standard sized. I'm sure this is metric. It was in between two of the sizes they did have. And another store farther away that would likely have it, since it's an industrial HW store, is closed today for Memorial Day weekend.

    Here is the pic of the Lazzar's kit. Could just be a generic/representative image, but it doesn't show a spring.

    Second pic is a screen grab from the Sears factory owner's manual PDF. No spring. Plus, I don't even think there is room for one in this config.

    BTW, now that all the fluid is out of the way, I can see that the inside surface of the release hole is pretty darned cross-hatched and rough. Quite vexing.

    [​IMG]

    Jack_components_from_manual.JPG
     
  3. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Just an update. I tried polishing out that bore with some swabs and a couple grades of polishing compound. Barely made a dent (so to speak) in the roughness. To do it properly I'd probably need to hone it out like Dana(?) said, with a wrap of sand paper.... or emery cloth. That's a lot more work than I was planning on for this job, on top of what I've already done. I may just see how it seals now, once the new o-ring arrives.

    All in all though, I guess it's easy to blame Sears (along with others) for sourcing a poorly finished product from China. Bad QC at the factory.
     
  4. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Anticipating such a problem, I also suggested coating the well-cleaned hole sides with epoxy to fill in the pits. It isn't difficult, just takes time waiting for the stuff to cure. Beats tearing up new seals or having to take it apart again and re-clean everything again before starting over.
    Another trick is to 'glue' in (w/ Loctite retaining cmpd, epoxy or even Permatex) a 'speedi-Sleeve, perhaps even one
    home-made from thin (0.02) shim stock rolled into a circle, with epoxy around the outside and sealing the joint.
    I'd guess the sleeve from any ball point pen is way too small to fit, but is anything similar sitting around in the garage? Brass sleeve for crimping on hose fittings? No lathe, or friend with one, to turn something to size? :beer:
     
  5. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    I guess I missed some of that earlier. A Speedy Sleeve would be perfect. And I have the perfect Locktite already. The green stuff. Two versions: standard and wicking for applying to threads after assembly.
     
  6. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Okay, so I received the pricey rebuild kit. And I measured the o-ring. 12mm OD x 2mm thick. So now I could look them up on McMaster-Carr in case this one doesn't hold up very long.

    Nice to know I can always spend a $8 and buy 100 spares....

    Jack_Release_orings_McMaster.JPG
     
  7. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    So, to wrap this up for now, I did swap in the new o-ring and get it all back together and bled this last weekend. Jack works fine now and no messy dribbles from the releaver. Tested it by lifting a front corner of my Scout enough to spin the wheel and do a little bit of hub maintenance.
     
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  8. David Banner

    David Banner High Wheeler

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    If you have to go back in soon...
    Pull the piston into the 'raised' position. Might need a block of wood or something to keep it raised.
    drill or hone your bore smooth like Dana suggested.
    When you retract the piston, it will flush all your swarth out.
    Then reassemble.
     
  9. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Hmmm. maybe. That's a good way to flush it, sounds like. Or I could just buy those 100 replacement o-rings for less than $10, which might keep this jack working leak-free for the next 200 years or so. Depends on how long this "repair" holds up and how often I actually need to use the jack. I don't know how long my friend owned the jack before the original o-ring wore out on him and it started leaking.

    What I need to do next is fix the other jack. (See post #14.)
     
  10. David Banner

    David Banner High Wheeler

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    Patrick, how did you make out with your jack? And how much was a rebuild kit from Lazzars?
    A friend just brought over his harbour fright 3 ton jack cause it's not holding pressure after being overloaded...

    I'm questioning whether it's worth trying to rebuild...
     
  11. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    I would take it apart to determine the quality of the machine work, specifically the surface quality and how closely parts like the piston fit into the cylinder. FWIW, I got some parts from Lazzars, and although I don't remember what was included in my order, or its cost, the price was very reasonable.
     
  12. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Hi guys. I did buy that rebuild kit but actually only needed the one -o-ring to fix my Craftsman jack. So all the other nice little parts are still sitting in the back. So far so good on that one little repair though. Doesn't leak. I was able to do one task with it in the mean time. Lifted up one corner of my Scout to swap out a wheel.

    I haven't done anything about my other jack though. That one's less straightforward. No rebuild kit available, so I would need to disassemble it and then examine internal seals, take measurements of same, etc.
     
  13. David Banner

    David Banner High Wheeler

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    It's all apart now -- machine work/fit is fine (opinion of an acft hydraulic tech -- me!) I'm sure the HF jack is a copy of a Walker design or someone else now out of business...
    A lot of rebuild kits cost $30 to $40 bucks -- so not really worth the bother for a jack that can be had new (on sale) for $100.
    It also might be that the dude my buddy loaned his jack to messed with the relief valves... the seemed too close to bottomed out but that's hardly a precise measurement...
    It'd be nice if HF could actually look up the item and order a seal kit (I'll ask 'em) but I have my doubts -- they'd rather sell a new jack I'm sure...
     
  14. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    But then spend $60 more for a new one? And what do you do with the old... pile of parts? You might call Lazzar's anyway. They might know about that HF jack, e.g., that it takes the same kit as something else.

    BTW, I think the kit was $40 or thereabouts.
     
  15. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Those screw heads that everyone in the universe tells you never to touch? That would be annoying if he messed up the jack doing that.
     
  16. David Banner

    David Banner High Wheeler

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    I can only guess -- "one of these screws is the fill plug right"

    It hurts to say that spending $40 might get you a working jack and it might not but spending $100 is guaranteed...
    Time to tinker is more precious...
     
  17. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Yeah, that's a good point. I though about it later. You might end up spending $40-50 on parts, plus 10 hours messing with it and doing research on the Web only to end up with a useless mess. That versus just heading over to HF and having a nice, shiny working jack in a hour's time, with a little bit more money invested.
     
  18. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    I don't understand how this could happen. It's not like a solid state device with an intermittent problem in some micro-component which is difficult to pinpoint, let alone replace. What is wrong should be obvious and what part(s) need to be replaced should also; the needed parts may even be locally available, depending on where one lives. I've seen few units where all the seals needed replacing due to wear from long usage, and particularly with the one in question, only one or two parts are likely bad, assuming the fluid wasn't replaced with paint remover or MTBE. Then again, I also enjoy such work and can even make small parts, if needed.
     
  19. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Me neither. Sometimes things don't go as planned is all I mean.

    I still have my other jack to fix. But since the Craftsman is working, that jack project is now way down on my list of to-dos.
     
  20. David Banner

    David Banner High Wheeler

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    From what I'm seeing on the web -- a kit is not returnable -- so if your sizes are off (and it looks like the main piston seal style is unobtainium -- replaced with a different style) you just threw away your money... I'm near a big enough industrial area to find a hydraulic supply and make sure I'm getting the right sizes. Next issue is resetting the two pressure relief valves, cause I'm sure they've been "messed with"... If they're not set reasonably close to spec the jack still won't work right... Harbour Freight ain't gonna be able to give me any useful rebuild tips or specs...

    The old C-130 brakes had ten pistons -- the individual pistons are like the pistons on a car's disc brake -- every once in a while you'd get a brake to rebuild that had an "over-size" stamp on it. The oversize O-rings and teflon back-up rings came in a specially marked package --but once you took them out of the package you couldn't tell the difference, and I couldn't measure the difference with a standard caliper -- but an oversize brake will leak at 3000psi with the standard O-rings...

    So if it was a walker/lincoln or other old american jack I'd totally agree with and know it's worth rebuilding.
    It's a chi-laysian copy of who knows what; it could have non-standard sizes...

    Haven't given up yet ONLY because finding a good hydraulic supply near me will be a good field trip and future resource.
     

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