D44 Rear Disc Brake installation (weld on)

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Bill USN-1, Jan 31, 2006.


  1. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I'll start with the parts I have selected.

    The rotors.
    Standard brake PN 81-61809
    For a 1991 GMC K1500 4wd truck front rotor.
    Price $27
    These are 6 lug rotors.
    Well get to that later.

    The alternative was the 79 ford F150 front rotor. PN 141214
    It's a 5 on 5.5 pattern but the center hole was very large and the rotor was ticker. I felt it may be a problem with the calipers. Others have said they have used them?

    [​IMG]


    Rear flex lines so you can remove the caliper without disconnecting the line.
    1985 Cadillac eldorado or Oldmobile Toronado rear.
    Hose. BH98915 price $8.99

    [​IMG]


    Calipers.
    1985 cadillac eldorado or oldmobile toronado rear.

    A1 Cardone PN 18-4138 and 18-4139
    Price $60.99 ea.

    [​IMG]

    Caliper Brackets
    I used PN 40121 for the small GM calipers, but I had to grind it out to fit the raised part on the axle flange.

    If you are looking to use the large GM calipers then here are the brackets for them.
    Caliper Bracket Rear - GM - 3 1/2in. Radius
    PN 40120-1 Price: $11.99


    AFCO
    [​IMG]




    As I stated the rotors I choose were 6 lug so they require drilling them to a 5 on 5.5 pattern.
    At first I was really concerned but it turned out to be pretty easy and straight forward.

    I used the drum as the pattern.
    If you set the rotor on top of the drum you will see that 1 of the holes lines right up.
    The center hole of the drum has a raised flange that keeps the rotor centered. So I just used an old wheel stud and lug nut to lock the 2 in place.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    With the 2 locked together I stuck a 1/2" bit in my HF drill press and drilled the remaining 4 holes.
    Once they were at 1/2" I pulled out my .600" bit and drilled them again. (my .600 is not good enough to do it alone)

    When done I unbolted them and cleaned up the holes.
    Notice how nice the center hole fits!!

    [​IMG]


    Here is a caliper loaded and test fit on the rotor.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I gutted the diff since I had to do the gear swap and posi install.
    Here is the end of the tube with everything removed.

    [​IMG]


    Next I trial fit the brakes on the axle to see where it all shook out.
    Here it is setting in place.
    I used a zip tie on the parking brake lever to hold it in place and centered.

    [​IMG]


    First thing I found was where the bracket needs to set, the axle tube flanged out. If I left it like that I would loose about 1/4-3/8" of brake pad contact with the rotor and the caliper would have hit my wheel!!!

    So I had to mark how much I needed to go in and ground it out with the angle grinder. Then I layed the second one on top of the first and marked it.

    [​IMG]


    Here is the bracket now tacked in place.
    Note the gap between the retaining plate and the diff flange.
    The original backing plate is .125" or 1/8". So when you remove it you need to take up the difference.
    I could not bring myself to cutting up the backing plates so I grabbed a couple of .060 washers for each bolt and out them in.

    Speaking of the retaining bolts.....
    You need to make sure you have the bolts in and thru the flange before welding the bracket on

    [​IMG]

    Here is the bracket all welded in.

    [​IMG]


    Once the brackets are welded on, then it's just putting everything together, plumbing the lines and making the brake cable fit.

    And here is the install.
    I used steel line to connect to the flex line.
    I used 3/16 X 6".

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    After getting it all plumbed I think I will change my installation a little.

    At first I set the calipers straight back. After looking at the lines I think I need to go a little higher just to give a little more protection on the lines from rocks.

    So I cut them all off and rewelding them at ~75*. The bleeder is still at the highest point.
    I feel better now....

    Speaking of emergency brake cable,
    This is how I fixed it.

    First I removed about 1-1.5 inches of the spring from around the cable.

    [​IMG]


    Here is the springs now.

    [​IMG]


    Then to take up the slack in the cable I removed the mounts from the frame and rewelded them further back. This basically makes the end of the cable shorter so it will work.
    Here is the stock location.

    [​IMG]


    And here is how far I moved it back.
    Laying on my back!!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So if anyone is actually thinking about this, there is still one obticle to overcome!

    The rotor thickness makes the studs too short!

    So...since I am also running alum wheels I need some more studs.

    Dorman to the recue.
    I am using the 290 for the rear and the 277 for the front.
    One note...the front studs shoulder will stick out past a steel wheel so you can not use them if you have thin steel wheels without a spacer.

    Part No.
    6102901 Dorman Wheel Stud
    Wheel Stud:

    Part No.
    6102771 Dorman Wheel Stud
    Wheel Stud:


    The rears are in and done but I have to pull the front back apart to replace them!

    [​IMG]



    and do you want to know how close the brakes are to the wheel?

    [​IMG]



    A couple notes.
    After I started using the E-brake, the cable started to stretch back out so now I don't have a lot of adjustment left in the cable.
    I even loosened the adjustment before welding the brackets back on..
    And the E-brake is kind of weak.
    It works but that's about all I can say about it.


    When I picked up my calipers in the JY they were in great shape and had brand new pads in them.
    So when I did the conversion I just used those pads to break everything in.
    Well I got a PM from a guy that said his pads won't fit???
    I told him I had room to spare and to check his numbers.
    Well in the mean time I asked the wife to go pick me up a new set of semi-metallic so I could check them out.

    Sure enough.. I had to take about .050 off each pad to clear the rotor.
    It was pretty easy since I had one of those red octagon patio stones right there.
    about 20-30 seconds of rubbing and i was done and ready to assemble.
    So sorry if this bothers people to have to do, but it's still a small price to pay for rear disc.
    After the first brake job it shouldn't be a problem!!!

    PS...don't use the ford rotors, they are much thicker than these even tho you don't have to redrill them!!



    Good info From RD Durham
    Part Number: 11372
    Our Price: $59.48

    [​IMG]

    Here's some of the info from TSM if your more into "bolt on"

    Scout II rear disc brake kit includes:
    brackets, bolts, spacer plates, and new 11 9/16" vented rotors.
    Part Number 2550 $289.95 pair
    Now with computer guided laser cut brackets!!!

    Additional Parts (Needed to complete installation)

    Part No. 3100 Calipers without parking brakes $100.00 pair
    Part No. 3110 New Calipers with parking brakes $300.00 pair Part No. 3111 Short Cable Extension $20.00 pair

    Part No. 3700 Rubber hose 9 1/2" $50.00 pair

    TSM

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2006
  2. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    For Shawn!!!
     
  3. Stephen Tate

    Stephen Tate Farmall Cub

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    Just a note for others on the rear studs, if your counter clown can't use the Dorman part number above, the studs are for the front of a 2WD 86-96 F150.

    Had to figure this one out for the guy at the store only to find out AutoZone no longer carries this stud. I bought the one at the store they had in stock, guy said he could order me more after I made sure it fit. Went back today: "that stud is not available sir". So NAPA has them, for a little more.
     
  4. RD Durham

    RD Durham High Wheeler

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    I would add to the information that Bill posted as to the Corvette master cylinder and hydraboost. If you are using the GM hydraboost system you can use the master cylinder for a 77-82 Corvette or the the master cylinder for a Chevrolet C30 1 ton truck/van that used a hydralic booster for the brakes.
     
  5. Mark Pietz

    Mark Pietz High Wheeler

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    Great write-up, makes it sound very doable for the wrench-challenged like me. BTW, what do you do about the proportioning valve?
     
  6. James G

    James G Farmall Cub

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    I was wondering the same. An adjustable one would be nice to get a perfect brake balance.
     
  7. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I also installed hydroboost so I used the booster and proportioning valve from the astrovan.
    You can see by the dates that is was done a while ago.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Robert JetFxr

    Robert JetFxr High Wheeler

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    02 Dodge 1/2 ton front rotor, 5 on 5.5 and no drilling required.
     

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  9. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    What's the thickness compared to the other rotors.
    I see your running front calipers with no parking brake so that may open up a different selection of avail rotors like the ford F250 front rotors I originally measured.

    But.....

    My write up was for the integral parking brake using the stock cable.
     
  10. RD Durham

    RD Durham High Wheeler

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    I also hadn’t thought of the Dodge rotors. I have to add rear disc brakes to my daughter’s Scout this spring so I will definitely take a look at using those. Do you know how they compare to Scout II front discs?

    You’re probably aware of this but just to note, that what you are running for rear brakes could be considered illegal to run on the “street” in most states. The majority of states require a separate "mechanical" parking/emergency brake system. A brake hydraulic line lock would be illegal in most states as a parking/emergency brake. If you are running a parking/emergency brake off the back of the transfer case like some of the older Jeeps used then you'd be OK. I’ve seen some of those sold by aftermarket vendors. Also, if your truck is strictly off-road then in most states you'd also be OK, as most states don’t require a separate parking/emergency brake for off-road use.
     
  11. Mike Moore

    Mike Moore Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    The parking brake is cable operated, not hydraulic. It's legal.
     
  12. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think Dale was referring to Roberts use of the front calipers not the eldo units i used.
     
  13. spreader

    spreader Farmall Cub

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    04 Dodge front rotors, loaded front calipers from a mid 70's Chevrolet truck. Axle flange diameter had to be reduced 1/8" to sit flat in the rotor tho. Front backing plate from an 89 Jeep GW. Cut out an arc to slip over the axle tube. Enlarged the ID of backing plate and bolted to axle tube end plate(whatever that piece is called) after drilling for proper fit and pattern of bolt holes. This was the hardest part. Just had to eye-ball it on the first one to set the depth of pads on rotor etc. It was sacrificed for the two that finally went on. There is actually more space between caliper and wheel(15") than on a stock Scout II front discs. All bolt on.
    No E-brake. Line lock added. And yes, I know/knew about the parking/E-brake thing.


    hydro-boost, cuz 'Bill usn1' had such a cool set-up and provided instructions.
     

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  14. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    So you have to either turn the end of the axle down or open up the hole in the center of the rotor?
     
  15. spreader

    spreader Farmall Cub

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    The center hole of rotor is just right. The flange with wheel studs is just a little too big. The inside of rotor doesn't have a 90* angle to the hat. Machining leaves a small fillet. I think that is the correct term. Without turning the flange down about 100 thou the rotor won't sit flat on axle.

    BTW, you're write-ups sure have inspired a lot of us out here on the interwebb. Distributor conversion probably down the road for me. IDK about TBI.

    From one old-old squid to another , THANX
     
  16. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Gotcha. So you just start the engine, stick it in gear and hold the angle grinder up there on the flange and grind till it fits.

    I have seen some threads where guys have concerns with less metal outside the studs.
    Your thoughts?

    You won't be disapointed with the distr conversion and HEI module.

    I just look for ways to improve my IH. If it works, I post it up for others.

    I realize there are many ways to do the same thing, I just weight the options and try to do it the cheapest and with the fewest mods to the parts so if anything breaks I can replace it on the road since I actually use my IH's. :D

    I say i'm getting older but not getting old!
     
  17. spreader

    spreader Farmall Cub

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    No. WW II Tin Can sailor(snipe) turned machinest that is my neighbor turned them down. Had axles out for new seals/bearings etc. Turned down a third one for a spare. He is also an old racer from the early 50's(sprints & such). This man is a real gem and a wealth of info about, what is to us, old stuff. 86 and can give the BS as good as he gets it. You would appreciate him. Everyone in the neighborhood loves him and watches out for him.
    Dan
     
  18. jauringer

    jauringer High Wheeler

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    Thanks for another great write-up [​IMG].

    Parts are on the way!

    Jason
     
  19. jauringer

    jauringer High Wheeler

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    Found some info regarding this Caddy Caliper and didn't see it mentioned.

    This is from MP, Master Power Brakes. Their kits use these calipers and this quote comes with their installation instructions.

    Has any one noticed a longer pedal from not setting the parking brake?

    Jason
     
  20. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Nope.
    The initial setup needs to be done but after that they ratchet out as the pedal is applied to maintain the pedal.
    My original write up is on justih.
    I have been running them since about 05 with no issues.
    If you had to set the PB every time on a caddy or olds...how many old guys that bought them would have put up with that?
    But setting it once in a while probably would help adjust the slack out.
     

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