Cost comparrison...Swap in power or build up an IH engine?

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Mike Moore, Dec 19, 2007.


  1. MarkO

    MarkO Farmall Cub

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    An adage I always remember is "horses for courses".

    You wouldn't put a race horse in harness to pull a plow any more than you would put a racing saddle on a plow horse.

    Both horses do very well at what they have been bred and trained to do. Trying to get them to do other work is just not very successful.

    The same could be said for the SBC and the SV engines.

    Back in the day almost every school bus we had was equipped with the SV345and a 5-speed.

    We had one C**** that had a SBC 350 and a 5-speed.

    The rear gears were very similar since the top speed of most of the buses was 55 MPH.

    The C**** bus would go up every hill at least one gear lower than the IHC buses. Out on the highway, as soon as a hill came into sight the C**** would start to slow down.

    The IHC buses got about 1 MPG better on average than the C**** bus did.

    I think is all has to do with "horses for courses".

    In a car or light truck, the SBC is a great little engine. But in anything that is not light and areodynamic, the SBC has to work harder to achieve the same result.

    Since it is your truck and you want a SBC, go for it.

    But IMHO, building a good SV engine and mating the overdrive transmission to it would be a better build.

    I think you are overstating the performance of the SBC you will experience, in both HP/torque and fuel mileage.

    I will be waiting to hear the rest of the story once you get everything put together and out on the road.

    Mark O.
    Castle Rock, WA
     
  2. ihslave

    ihslave Farmall Cub

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    Looks like a pretty clean truck... nice garage, too! Is that at home, or work?
     
  3. Mike Moore

    Mike Moore Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    The shop is at work...work for now.

    As for the chevy heads being cracked up junk...I've never heard that, nor seen that. What did the SBC change between 1957 and 1986? Besides CID, the major components are all interchangable. I don't understand.


    In other news, I hacked the engine nount tabs off the frame today. The point of no return is behind me.:winkiss:
     
  4. 71 Scout 2

    71 Scout 2 Binder Driver

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    If your LT is from a Corvette, it will have the factory aluminum heads. No major problems with those as long as the engine hasn't gotten hot, hot.
    All of the auto makers started making thinner casting in the later '70's and '80's to save weight and money. A old SBC from the '60's can be run at 250 degrees (short term) without a major malfunction, but if you did that with anything built with the thinner casting process you'll end up with scrap.
     
  5. Mike Moore

    Mike Moore Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    It's a '97 Trans Am engine, and like the Vette, they did have aluminum heads.
     
  6. Mike Moore

    Mike Moore Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Just to get things back on track with the $$$ comparison, I've editted the very first post in this thread with a running tally at the bottom. I will keep it updated as I buy things to show the exact amount I will have in the swap.
    I mentioned the $560 transmission in a previous post. I was going to buy a used one, and I found several good 700r4's for $200-$350, but after they fell through one after another, I bit the bullet and paid for the rebuilt one from eBay. Time became too much of a factor for me to keep searching for a good used one. I needed it now, and I made the decision to go ahead and buy it.
    With that, short of driveshafts, I believe I have all of my expensive pieces sitting here waiting to be installed.
     
  7. HIBINDER

    HIBINDER Farmall Cub

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    Actually, newer engines run at a much higher coolant temp than the ones in the 60's. It results in lower emissions.:rolleyes: GM doesn't even turn on the fans till over 200 degrees.:eek:
     
  8. Bread

    Bread Binder Driver

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    Woah. Hidden washer fluid lines. That's pretty trick.
     
  9. Mike Moore

    Mike Moore Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Your the first to ever mention that.:)
     
  10. R290

    R290 High Wheeler

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    Nice looking engine.

    Not a bad idea, I just broke the Tee, as I sat on it, while pulling the radiator. Yes crawling into the engine bay was the easiest way to lift the radiator out by myself.
     
  11. Bread

    Bread Binder Driver

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    I just did a rad swap myself this weekend. I too was sitting in the engine bay trying to shimmy that thing out of there :) But I also installed a new washer tank and lines a few days before. I suppose that's the only reason I noticed it. Sorry for the OT, but I just had to point it out.
     
  12. DNL

    DNL Binder Driver

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    Mike,
    I am enjoying this writeup and will be interested in the outcome of this project. Just some random IH and Chevy MPG data for everyone to interpret as they will...

    I have a 1997 Chevy Suburban with a Vortec 350, auto trans. with overdrive, 4x4 and 3.73 rear gears and 245/75 R16 tires, which are about 30-31 inches tall. It weighs 6000 lbs with me in it. It gets 12-14 MPG on long interstate trips loaded with my family and our stuff. It gets 5-6 MPG on long interstate trips pulling approx. 9,000 lbs trailer and load, not counting truck weight.

    I have a 1969 1200 Travelette with a 392, auto trans, 4x4, 4.10 gears, and 37x12.5x16.5 tires, which are about 35 inches tall. It weighs just under 6000 lbs, with me in it. The big tires make the overall final drive ratio very close when the Sub is NOT in overdrive. The Travelette gets 10 mpg most of the time. I have pulled some large loads with it, in excess of 12,000 lbs, but I didn't keep track of my mileage.

    I honestly can't say which truck has more power or gets better mileage. I know I would rather ride in the Suburban on long trips, and I would rather ride in the Travelette when towing big loads, but those are the only generalizations I can make at this point.

    To make an honest comparison, I should bolt the 392 into the Suburban with an IH to GM adapter, and carefully log all the data, then put the 350 back in and log all the same data.




    Probably isn't going to happen.



    Have fun Mike, and good luck. Please don't get disgusted by the haters and stop updating the thread.



    Dave
     
  13. Mike Moore

    Mike Moore Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    I'm not going to stop updating it. As I've said, whatever happens I'm going to post. I'm not going to get to work on it today at all, but tomorrow afternoon I hope to get it in for a while. I'll be doing a reverse shackle on it most likely...since everything is out of the way at this point.

    My wiring harness is shipped and should be here Thursday or Friday.:yes:
     
  14. Mike Moore

    Mike Moore Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Huuuuuge update!
    I didn't have much time to play today. I got the IH engine mounts ground down and smoothed out the frame where they were.:rolleyes: I'm going to hack the suspension off the frame Thursday night...unless sumthin stoopit happens.:wacko:
     
  15. Stephen Byrd

    Stephen Byrd Farmall Cub

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    Well if its power and mileage you want diesel is the way to go. Here is a duramax that should do you good. I have the same engine and put out 400hp and 800lbs. There are a lot of guys out there putting down 550rwhp 1000rwtq with stock internals. BTW i also get 22mpg highway pushing a 8500lb truck with 33' tires and the aerodynamics of a brick.
     
  16. Mike Moore

    Mike Moore Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    That may not be a new record, but I bet it's a darn good average! I started cutting the front spring hangers off the frame at 7:28pm, and by 11:45pm I'm done with my shackle reverse installation.:rockon: I took a few water breaks in there, too...and 2 friends were here helping, which always means more talkin' and less workin'. I took a very few pics of this along the way, but I'll post some tomorrow (later today).

    Saturday morning starts the LT1 fitting procedures. I've got to remember to get the flywheel, and bolt the engine/transmission/t-case together tomorrow, and I'll be ready to go. :cool2:
     
  17. Erik VanRenselaar

    Erik VanRenselaar Y-Block King

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    The Duramax drivetrain is *heavily* dependent on electronic controls. Would you want to perform all the electrical work required to make it work well in a Scout II? Besides, any engine with those hp/tq specs is massive overkill in a Scout II chassis.

    Any diesel option in a modern pickup truck is pricey, compared with the gasoline-powered equivalent vehicle. How long does it take to make up the higher cost difference (of the diesel option) with the better fuel economy?
     
  18. ihslave

    ihslave Farmall Cub

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    I'd say that's a darn good time for a shackle reversal!

    Its good to see you are actively moving forward on the projet... once it gets torn down, there's usually motivation to keep going (read:wife).

    I was thinking that a nice mod, once its all done, would be to incorporate a period-correct 'vette instrument panel to match the drivetrain...

    Rock on...
     
  19. Mike Moore

    Mike Moore Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Progress report:clap::
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Not much progress, but a little. I've got to do the Valentine's :wub: thing this evening, so my workday was cut a little short.
    I got the drivetrain put together (forgot the flywheel at home, though...so it comes back apart soon), and sat it in place to look for obvious hurdles. It's sitting there on a transmission jack in the rear and a jack stand up front. It fits, but it will require some modification to fit like I really want it to.
    The tranny mount crossmember is going to have to be moved back a little, no big deal. I expected it would need that. In order to have the T-case up flush with the bottom of the frame, I need to open up the hump between the seats near the #3 body mount step-up. This allows me to move the engine/transmission/t-case all up higher. Right now it hits the floor with a little less than two inches hanging under the frame. Again, this isn't too big of a deal for me, since the Scout is a half cab anyway...I don't have to worry about the rear passenger's leg room. I'd prefer it was all flush with no junk hanging down underneath. The interior part will scarcely be seen, so I'm going to hack it up.:yes:
    As for the engine itself, I think it's going to fit great. The exhaust manifolds clear the steering, frame, etc fine...at least the left one. I removed the right one to get a broken bolt out and haven't reinstalled it, but I feel certain it will clear the frame. I may have to notch the frame a very little on the right side to clear the A/C compressor (see last picture), but I'm not sure yet. It's close, but I haven't shimmied the engine all I'm going to shimmy it, yet. I think it will be okay once I move it up a little after modifying the tranny hump. We'll have to wait and see. If it needs cut, it will only need a little, anyway.

    So that's where I'm at, as of right now. I hope to get mounts made up this week and have it all hanging there on it own.:cool:
     
  20. Mike Moore

    Mike Moore Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    It's sitting crooked because the Scout is crooked, BTW. The engine is straight to the floor, but the Scout isn't...because the 304 is in the back of the Scout. See...even when it's not in the engine bay anymore, it's still causing problems! hehehe
     

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