Clutch: Rebuilt Vs New?

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Buckeye, Sep 9, 2015.


  1. Buckeye

    Buckeye Farmall Cub

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    Hello All,

    What are the pros and cons on new vs rebuilt clutches? I have a fairly stock 1971 800 V8 (t90) with a mechanical clutch (cable). The transmission shop is telling me my clutch is shot. They are recommending that I replace it with a brand new clutch at $623.00. I am in Columbus, Ohio and the guys at SuperScout said they can rebuild clutches for $250.00. When I asked the transmission shop why we wouldn't go rebuilt they said that rebuilds tend to chatter because they use the old springs. After talking to a local clutch shop they said that the springs are always replaced in a rebuild.

    So, what are the differences between new and rebuild besides the obvious price?

    Thanks for your help.

    Brady
     
  2. 1975IH200

    1975IH200 High Wheeler

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    A properly rebuilt clutch by a reputable shop is as good as a new clutch and costs less.
    Always replace the pilot bearing and throw-out bearing with each clutch replacement. These are separate items from the rebuilt clutch.
    As for clutch chatter after replacement, my bet is that they don't remove and resurface the flywheel, which is what should be done. Do it!
    When I lived in Columbus. I always purchased rebuilt clutch assemblies at Columbus Joint & Clutch and did the R&R work myself in my driveway. They used to be on West Mound street, but they moved to 1432 Sullivant Ave. some years ago. (west of downtown off I-70 and Exit 98A)
    I used them for drive shaft & U-joint work as well.
    They are a sister company of Ft. Wayne Clutch of Ft. Wayne, Indiana.
    They know clutches/drivelines and I recommend them highly.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
  3. kevingweq

    kevingweq Y-Block King

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    Can't say enough good things about Fort Wayne clutch ,Called them for a 12" disc for my T-all ,Fella says I will build you one and ship it out tomorrow
    3 days later a brand new disc shows up at my door $90 --no muss no fuss
     
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    ---First off, the Collar for the T-Out Bearing on Your truck, if original, might not have provisions for greasing the T-Out Bearing. The sealed Bearing is a thing of the past, so You might have to locate a "service grade" Collar; Or drill a (actually two) 3/32" Grease Journal(s) & tap for a 1/8" Grease Zerk. If not prepared to do so, both, SSS (as well as the rest of the Scout Light Line Parts Dealers) and FWC&D/CJ&C, should be able to set You up w/no aggravation... Again, if the Collar is one, manufactured for a sealed Bearing. My Clutch Kits from FWC&D came w/a new T-Out Bearing & Collar, as well as Pilot Bearing, rebuilt Clutch Disc & Pressure Plate. Not only that, but from their own mouths at FWC&D, they were the supplier for IH's Clutches.

    ---Where do they suppose they are going to find a "NEW"* Clutch kit? I haven't looked lately, but the only new* I have seen, were in the Diaphragm-style... which isn't what came on our IHs. We have Rockford, Lever-type (3) Clutches, similar to Auburn. IMHO, If You've driven w/a Rockford for more than say, 3yrs, You won't be happy w/a Diaphragm style.

    ---I prefer 1-on-1 as opposed to mass-produced myself. I'd rather have a 90yr old family man, take 1-3 hours rebuilding my clutch, than have some corporate dick, sit in an office reading Country Living magazines while an assembly line spits out 300-1,000 Clutches an hour... when "white coats" only inspect 1-3. of the mass-produced Clutches, per hour.

    ---I also wouldn't trust the corporate mass-production lines for remanufactured... but that's just me... as well as many others. So, when I discuss remanned parts, I reflect on the color coding. If I have to go corporate remanufactured, Green & Blue colored paint dots are the only parts I will accept. Yellow is seen frequently for water pumps, starters & alternators, but apparently the red & black colors are a thing of the past. I haven't seen them in... a coon's age.Each color designates, the number of times it has suffered abuse from media blasting, prior to entering the production line. The more times it has had material removed, the closer it gets to becoming "recyclable" metal.

    ---Just wondering, when was that? I too have the 12" on my Scout II and when last I had to contact them for a Clutch (well over 4yrs ago I would say), they were out of 12" Pressure Plate cores. Would be nice to know that people are sending in their cores finally. Especially when they always sent me a pre-paid, return packing slip for my cores.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
  5. Buckeye

    Buckeye Farmall Cub

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    Ok, now I feel like I am learning something! Thank you 1975Ih, kevin, and Thomas for taking the time to respond! I almost emailed you directly 1975IH, because it seemed like every thread I read on this forum about clutches had a post from you. I actually called and talked to Columbus clutch yesterday because of one of your posts. The guy I spoke with there told me that they send their clutches out to have them done (which mean maybe they go to Ft. Wayne, if they are a sister company.)?

    In regards to your quote about not resurfacing the flywheel 1975IH, the transmission shop showed me my flywheel that had been removed and told me it will need to be replaced. After researching this later, I wondered why having it resurfaced wasn't an option. The super shiny part of the flywheel had the coloration of when metal gets super hot (blue-ish striations). They quoted me 145.00 for a new flywheel. Seem fair? Do flywheels get to the point of being beyond resurfaceable?

    Thomas- when you mention-
    "---Where do they suppose they are going to find a "NEW"* Clutch kit? I haven't looked lately, but the only new* I have seen, were in the Diaphragm-style... which isn't what came on our IHs. We have Rockford, Lever-type (3) Clutches, similar to Auburn. IMHO, If You've driven w/a Rockford for more than say, 3yrs, You won't be happy w/a Diaphragm style."

    the only brand new clutch I've found is this one from Ih parts america: http://www.ihpartsamerica.com/store/CLUTCH-KIT-11-BB-NEW.html
    I wonder if this is the one that they are quoting me on.? (Not sure if this one would even fit my truck).

    As you can probably read from my initial post, I am starting to question why a reputable transmission company would steer me to a new clutch if a rebuilt clutch would perform just as well, with less cost.
     
  6. 1975IH200

    1975IH200 High Wheeler

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    Have the flywheel resurfaced at CJ&C. If it is too far gone, they will tell you, otherwise they can usually be resurfaced several times in their life. Be sure the bolt threads get some sealant on installation to the crankshaft as the bolts are exposed to the engine interior and can leak oil if not sealed.

    The IHPA clutch should work fine for your Scout if you want a new clutch. Give the old core to CJ&C if you go that route.

    Your Scout could have a 10.5" or an 11" clutch. Either way, the flywheel should be drilled for both. The 11" clutch would be a good choice.
     
  7. WRENCH MAN

    WRENCH MAN Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    That shop is blowing a LOAD of smoke up your &$$!, I agree, a "NEW" clutch?? I'd like to see that one?, and a "NEW" flywheel too??, it would have to be SO! far gone to not be able to resurface! a "New" ring gear maybe?
     
  8. Buckeye

    Buckeye Farmall Cub

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    Thanks for responding 1975IH and WrenchMan.
    I am afraid that WrenchMan may be confirming what I was suspecting. What started out as a chatter in my transmission has led this shop to tell me I need an all new clutch, flywheel, new front and rear driveshafts (claiming too short with new IH parts spring kit, see this post: http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/index.php?threads/drive-shaft-too-short-after-new-springs.129801/), and some worn parts within my transmission that they still have yet to locate replacements for. According to them, the rear main seal leaked oil on my flywheel and clutch which caused much of the problem? Can an oil leak create this much damage? He showed me the imput shaft that had a little play in it and said that I will need new bearings. There is another part within the transmission that they claim has worn down and needs replaced but I am not sure what the part is. I will try to find out this information tomorrow and post it here.
    Thanks for the thoroughness 1975IH. I had read about using sealant on the flywheel bolts to prevent oil leaking into the bell housing area. Also, I don't really want a new clutch, I want to save almost 400.00 by having mine rebuilt:) I am going to call CJ&C tomorrow to talk to them more about my clutch, flywheel and driveshafts (while I am at it)
     
  9. kevingweq

    kevingweq Y-Block King

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    Got it about a week ago , But I only needed a disc , I had a new pressure plate
    I did not get the best pix of the new disc from Fort Wayne , To me it looked absolutely brand new ,the hub had zero wear, the spring cushion arrangement showed
    no signs of media blasting and virtually identical to the disc that was in the truck
     

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