Broken exhaust manifold to head threaded hole

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Michael1971, Sep 22, 2020.


  1. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,930
    Likes Received:
    1,544
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, Ca.
    I suggest discussing the shop's silver soldering it back together, and letting them tell you if/why another method would be better; then decide who does it and how. I would hope a good shop's workers would have more knowledge than I, even though I've dome lots of odd repairs using many methods and materials.
    Later, you can find some old worn out parts to break and repair or just build up when learning the procedures. Not doing this right has too many consequences to make taking a chance worth the possible satisfaction or savings for doing it yourself.

    I still think it's worth a call about the HT epoxy, particularly if you find the broken piece and it still fits together well.
     
  2. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,658
    Likes Received:
    921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sacramento,California
    Let the shop decide how best to do it. My guess would be silver solder or braze it with a brass rod but they will know best based on experience and the particular job at hand. Honestly, if it were me, and I knew the path I took, I'd spend a whole day if necessary finding that peice. I'd buy or make a wide magnetic pickup tool and if my first pass didnt do it., I'd get some twine and some stakes and use it to mark out columns as a bit narrower than my pickup tool just like we used to do when I worked at caltrans doing surveys. That way I'd make sure I didn't miss any spots. It's that important to find that peice.
     
  3. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,658
    Likes Received:
    921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sacramento,California
    I just read the temperature of the manifold on a Chrysler 2 4L turbo 4cyl and it was 760F. It probably gets a bit hotter than the SV but still, that's way over what most epoxies could reasonably handle. What's worse, it's actually not a low strength application. It a tab that snapped off with a reasonably small bonding surface. If you try and glue something like that and it doesn't hold, now it's even worse because you have to get that off the surfaces before you can do a good weld. If it was holding an intake on, then I'd say go for it. But not something that hot.
     
  4. sdhachey

    sdhachey Binder Driver

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Fitchburg, MA
    Give it a try. And then in about 20 years let us know how it's holding up.
     
  5. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Messages:
    15,713
    Likes Received:
    1,660
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    lima,ohio
    Swap heads
     
  6. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,658
    Likes Received:
    921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sacramento,California
    In 20 years you will probably be able to email a 3D model of your cylinder head to a rapid manufacturer/3D printer, send them a payment for $25,000 plus $2,000 dollars shipping and have them ship you back a freshly printed cylinder head. While that sounds crazy expensive, in 2040 a can of tuna will cost $50 and minimum wage will be 500 dollars an hour so it will actually be quite cheap, about 500 bucks in today's money.

    Unless you decided to take one of Elon Musks rockets to Mars. In which case, the Neuralink chip in your head will not only cure many common mental diseases, such as having sympathies for the "Free Mars Movement" and thinking thoughts contrary to the will of Emperor Elon The First ,it will also cure "the sickness", and instead an old IH truck, you will drive a Tesla (which honestly is probably for the best because you'd probably asphyxiate half the dome with carbon monoxide an old V8 gasoline engine puts out)
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  7. Michael1971

    Michael1971 Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2018
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    28
    If that happens I will sneakily put a sv8 into my Tesla, it's the car itself that makes all the difference right?

    I am distrustful of using the gbw weld or other putties for this, I just feel like after a point to become brittle and break from being heated up cooled heated up cooled and so on and so forth over God knows how many years.


    And swapping the heads is still an option but not an option I want to take, my goal is to have this vehicle as my winter vehicle but I suppose he probably still have a month or so left, I procrastinated this out over the entire summer, but I also have two other vehicles I can drive right now too.
     
  8. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,658
    Likes Received:
    921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sacramento,California
    Actually, it will soften from the heat and then break off. But I can't stress enough. Get one of those magnetic tools from HF and find that piece.
     
  9. Michael1971

    Michael1971 Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2018
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I forgot to mention after work I used a magnet and looked around for a while and I couldn't find it. Some of the area that the truck was parked in is now a small manure pile so the ground gets turned up all the time and loads of manure mixed with dirt gets taken down to a larger manure pile down below our hill. If it ended up in that area it is gone forever.
     
  10. Darrel

    Darrel Dreams of Cub Cadets

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    4,760
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    To be honest you're overthinking this. I would weld it myself in a heartbeat. As long as you preheat to +500F it's not that difficult and if the stud does break off again no big deal you can still take it to a shop. I cut out a big chuck out of my cast iron NP205 and welded a plate (mild steel) onto it very easily using standard MIG wire. The reason people have issues welding cast iron is that they're usually working on thin wall (or don't preheat). This isn't thin wall it's a huge thick chuck of iron. As long as you get penetration and it doesn't crack during cooling it should last forever. The keys to prevent cracking is to preheat, not make long welds (n/a for this repair), peen to relief stress, and then slow the cooling.

    :thumbs up:
     
    RinTX likes this.
  11. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,658
    Likes Received:
    921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sacramento,California
    You sound like someone who knows what your doing, has the equipment and has done this multiple times before.

    And that's the problem, the OP does not sound like he knows exactly what he's doing, does not sound like he has the equipment and does not sound like he's done this many times before
    So he will need to learn exactly how to do it, buy the equipment and supplies, and then practice on something that's basically scrap iron until he can get it right the first time every time. Its easy to forget the barriers to doing something when you do repairs like that everyday without even thinking about it.

    So if he wants to learn a new skill, and have that on tap every time he needs to do something like this in the future, I'm totally for him developing the skills and getting the equipment to do it. It's a handy thing to know how to do. It's why I've been practicing welding aluminum with acetylene. (There are guys that can do it on thin sheet metal. I'm not one of those. Yet. )

    I may be mistaken, but my take on the situation is that the OP lacks the equipment and skills to jump right in and repair that and that it will take a substantial investment in equipment and time to develop them. It also seems (I may be totally wrong here, as it's an educated guess) that he prioritizes getting the truck running over learning these skills.,It DOES seem he has some level of interest in learning as he mentioned replacing it then trying to fix it himself just to see how it goes, which is what I based my guess about his priorities on.

    So that, and my own experience repairing such things, and the fact that the pro will do it for the very reasonable 60 bucks, is what I based my advice on.
     
  12. Michael1971

    Michael1971 Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2018
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I can weld regular steel and at school in engineering class I had welded on aluminum but I have no experience welding on cast iron. I can see it being a very useful skill to have but with it being such a small amount of welding needed at the moment I don't see it making too much sense to buy all the needed supplies, find a old piece of cast iron I can practice on, and then try welding in that tight space in the engine bay. At home I don't have a stick welder which I believe is the kind you would need for this job correct? I think at this point it would make more sense to go and pony up the $60 to have the other person do it. My main worry is that I don't want to do it and then screw it up bad enough that I need to replace the head or have it break apart in the middle of nowhere.
     
  13. Jeff Jamison

    Jeff Jamison Lives in an IH Dealership

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2001
    Messages:
    7,824
    Likes Received:
    1,169
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aliquippa Pa
    You might be able to just use a header gasket and not fix the hole.
     
  14. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Messages:
    15,713
    Likes Received:
    1,660
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    lima,ohio
    Glue it on with 3M weather adhesive. Red & white tube. Its yellow. An when it gets to heat it turns to like a sheet of glass. Works very good to. Apply to both sides if gasket. Install manifold. Start an let it get hot. DO NOT rev engine. Let it idle for about an hour. Shut it down. Let it sit all nite.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  15. Michael1971

    Michael1971 Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2018
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Update. My dad drives all over the country for work and he just came home yesterday. He figured we should just give brazing a shots so yesterday we took a bolt and got halfway through braising it on before running out of acetylene. Monday I am going to have to take the exhaust manifold and have it replained. I ended up buying two of them one from JJ on here and another from a guy on Facebook marketplace, JJ's looks better but it's missing a tab, the other is complete but it is pitted along where it would face the head. so things are finally moving along on this truck after staring at it for 4 months, all that's left is finish braising, put the exhaust manifold on after having it replained, buy a new muffler for it as it looks like someone through a m80 inside of it and let it blow up, free up the fuel tank selector cable, and work on wiring as it currently has no tail lights and the dash seems to work intermittently.
     
    jeff campbell likes this.
  16. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,658
    Likes Received:
    921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sacramento,California
    To fix the lights, start with the bulkhead connectors. There's typically a front light harness,a rear light harness and an under hood engine harness. These are connected to the under dash harness via the aforementioned bulkhead connectors. Typically the contacts get corroded and dirty. Cleaning them often solves the problem. Be very carefully though. The connector shells are usually very brittle after all these years. While your cleaning and inspecting, pay particular attention to the big wires that typically go to a pair of screw terminals on one of the bulkhead connectors. One goes from the alternator, the other to the battery. Behind the dash the one from the alternator goes to the alternator gauge and then back to the one that connects to the battery. The rest of the electrical system branches off the alternator gauge. Those screw terminals at the fire wall should be paid particular attention too. They may not be the root of your lighting problems but they are common points of failure that can cause a totally dead vehicle (no lights, no crank, just nothing) or in some cases, can cause a fire as those connections get very hot. Pay close attention to the wires on both sides of the bulkhead and the condition of the terminals. Make sure the wires are not melted and and that they are securely crimped into the connectors without an excessive length of stripped wire. (They often start working their way out after thousands of cycles of heating and cooling. Especially if the screws are loose or the terminals corroded.)
     
    Michael1971 likes this.
  17. Michael1971

    Michael1971 Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2018
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Finally able to respond and say thanks for the hint on fixing my wiring demons!
     

Share This Page