Broken exhaust manifold to head threaded hole

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Michael1971, Sep 22, 2020.


  1. Michael1971

    Michael1971 Farmall Cub

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    A while ago I had noticed that my exhaust manifold was broken in two so I bought a new one from JJ, I was just getting ready to put it all back together for a winter runner truck and I noticed that the threaded hole on the head was broken in half. Anyone have any ideas of what I can do to fix this or do I just need to swap out the head. Also does anyone have the correct name for this piece? Threaded hole sounds dirty. Sorry if this is a very obvious question or something that any competent mechanic should know but I am not competent. Thanks.
     

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  2. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Id replace the head.best cure. If needed i have plenty off.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  3. MrKenmore

    MrKenmore Y-Block King

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    I have that condition as well. Came that way. A real bummer. Occurs at the #1 cylinder (front left). PO tried a helicoil repair and then put a nut on the back side. I'm not touching it as it works currently. Certainly not ideal.
    20200514_185811.jpg
     
  4. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Well worth a try.
     
  5. Michael1971

    Michael1971 Farmall Cub

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    I was worried someone would say that, I do have a couple of extra engine sitting so if need be I could just take a head off from that but I was hoping to avoid that, thanks for the offer and if for some reason mine don't work out let you know and give you a call.
    I suppose I could try that just weld a threaded rod onto it and then have a lock nut on there too. If it's broken may as well experiment a little bit I suppose. If no one else chimes in with anything a bit better that will be the route I go, this is certainly not a restoration as if I take the floor mat out I will be able to drive it like a Flintstones character!
     
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  6. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Cast iron can be welded, but requires proper techniques and filler rod to be successful. If you choose to go that route, I'd suggest you sign-in to WeldingWeb.com and ask for advice, preferable from someone like CastWeld (if he's still there).
    Considering that the break is on a head and heat-treating the area might be hard, careful brazing might be a better solution here, perhaps using Silicon bronze.

    Edit: I wonder if a high-temperature epoxy would have the strength to do the job well; perhaps something like this (which I didn't see strength numbers for):
    https://www.masterbond.com/tds/ep17ht-lo
    Might be worth calling the phone number given, and ask about your situation.

    .​
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  7. J.J.

    J.J. Lives in an IH Dealership

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    thats unfortunate. The ear on my '74 100 is broken like that too, the PO had welded the ear back on and (fingers crossed) it has held as long as I have owned the truck (2007). However, it is not quite flush and I have left it alone and am using Remflex header gaskets instead of the stock steel ones so it would seal, and suggest the same once you get it buttoned up. They are made of graphite and are thicker too, when you tighten down the material gives a bit and they "sink" into the material. Been running it that way trouble free since 2007. 20,000 miles ago.

    Hope you don't have to switch heads out but best of luck either way it goes.

    JJ in TN
     
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  8. Darrel

    Darrel Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Do you have a stick welder? I would pre-heat with a torch (use a IR gun) and weld on a piece of tube or a stud using Ferroweld rod. Cover with a welding blanket to slow the cooling. Also peen it. Ferroweld rods are cheap, easy to work with, strong, and doesn't need super clean metal. Nickel rod is better when you need to machine it afterwards.
     
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  9. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

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    Braze it with brass brazing rod if your going to go that route. My first instinct would be to cut a peice of 3/8 steel to make a little flange that can sit behind there. Grind it so it's as big as possible, but fits nice. Then drill a hole a thousandth under for the bolt. Or thread it for a stud or bolt. Then cinch it together and see if it holds. I doubt a high temp epoxy would have the strength. JB is about the best you can get and it softens at those temps. I'd try making some sort of clamp like I said, and if that failed, I'd try brazing a stud on. If I brazed the stud, or did anything similar, I'd tighten it to the lower end of the specified torque range or slightly less, using a torque wrench, very very carefully.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  10. Michael1971

    Michael1971 Farmall Cub

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    I called up a local welding shop for advice and they said a regular threaded rod might not hold up over time. They had recommended that I take a grade 8 bolt and cut the head off. They also said it would be 60 or so bucks to have them do all of it, which I may do that so if it fails I can raise hell with them rather than being mad at myself. Lots of great advice here, I'm on the fence about whether I want to try braising it my self or bring it to them and have them do it.
     
  11. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

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    I see all the "get a peice of metal behind it" stuff won't work because yours is not the hole on the end. Look down in there and see if the other peice is there. Do you have an oxyacetylene rig? (Propane or map won't be enough for a big chunk of iron like that) The right tips? Another part to practice on? I bet that by the time you get everything you need, you might as well just buy a head. Which you might need anyway if the repair doesn't work. I would go for the pro and have them do it. They will determine whether brazing or welding is right , and have the skills to do it. 60 bucks seems reasonable. But you could ask a few shops. For example, if you ask 5 different shops and four say it's a lost cause, maybe it's not likely to work. On the other hand, if everyone agrees it's fixable, then that's good.


    Be aware, it may not work. Any reputable shop should make that very clear. But your best chance is with a pro.

    I suspect that anyway you do this that heads going to have to come off. But ask. But I really doubt there's any other way. Look for a nos head gasket if you have not already gone to the thicker one. They can be found if you look enough.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  12. Michael1971

    Michael1971 Farmall Cub

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    I'm at work right now so I will sometimes just check in but not reply, and WOW every time I look back at your reply it gets bigger and more detailed! I think you've convinced me on farming it out, my lack of experience with this and the possibility of it breaking off again if I do it isn't appealing to me. Like you said I run that risk no matter what but there is a extra level of confidence if I have someone else do it. The guy came recommended to me by the repair shop next door to where I work, and the welding shop is on the other side of town from where I live so it's not a long trip either for it to fail on me. Thanks!
     
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  13. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

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    The maximum temperature for the material I linked to is 650*F, which should be high enough if the basic strength is good enough and the strength doesn't fall rapidly until it gets near that maximum. As I said, it's worth calling the company and posing the situation to them. If the repair were documented well, they might offer the material free in exchange for the use of that documentation as advertising.
    If the broken piece were found (unlikely), a few Silver Solders have the strength to do the job, assuming the surfaces could be cleaned well enough to get a good bond.
     
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  14. Michael1971

    Michael1971 Farmall Cub

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    I had it but I set it in the engine bay, then I had to move the truck 50 feet to the right and it must've fallen out when I did that, unlikely I will find it in the grass and black dirt sadly
     
  15. J.J.

    J.J. Lives in an IH Dealership

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    If you only moved it 50 ft, it might be worth going to Harbor Freight and getting either a cheap magnetic sweeper or a metal detector. I lost my wedding ring twice (found it both times), the 1st with said Harbor Freight metal detector. For $60 if it were me I would let them do it. You will spend more than that on a head gasket set (I just bought one) and if they are willing to stand behind their work why not? $60-ish seems cheap to me.

    JJ in TN
     
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  16. sdhachey

    sdhachey Binder Driver

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    Good advice. I did the same with a grade 8 bolt and then cast welded it with nickel rod, along with preheating the area with an oxy/ace torch, w/o removing the head; luckily I didn't mess up the head gasket or anything else. Needed to build up the weld quite a bit to handle the required 30 ft. lbs. of fastening torque. Select the best length bolt where there's enough shoulder to weld on while leaving enough thread for gr. 8 nut and lock washer. Has held up for almost 20 years now, and I would have had a pro do it but none were interested (so even if they end up charging you a little more for a quality job, that's still a good deal). And this method is a decent choice if you want to avoid removing the head and/or a replacement is hard to find. If removal is required then better to replace the head if you can easily find a compatible good one. Good luck.
     
  17. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

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    If you don't need to cover hundreds of square feet of area, try using a very strong magnet such as from a modern acoustic speaker. They are frequently discarded by auto stereo shops installing custom systems and are useful for lots of purposes including holding tarps to sheet metal boxes or bodies. Disassembling the speakers (removing the front section to get a smooth plane at the magnet's front surface, e.g. no rivets) can sometimes be a chore but is worth it in the end.
    The irregularly shaped magnets from inside hard disc drives are about as strong as they come but are much smaller too. The best are fairly fragile.
     
  18. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

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    If I were to try this, I'd look into using a 310 Stainless or A286 alloy bolt. The first should weld well with nickel rod, the second probably, and both are designed to not corrode or loose strength when repeatedly heated. Such bolts are probably a good replacement for the standard exhaust manifold bolts, too.
     
  19. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

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    Get that peice Find a big magnet or get one of those magnetic sweeper tool from harbor freight. Then go over every square inch of that area, a couple times if need be. You will find it if your diligent. That could well be the difference between success and failure. Or get a metal detector. But I'd try the magnet first.

    Honestly, if that peice is found it goes from "that might be fixable" to "that should be fixable" you assemble the peices, with a stud in the threads and a cheap harbor freight c clamp to hold it in place, the silver solder it. Then , if necessary cut the clamp loose and throw it in the garbage. (That's why you use the 4 dollar HF clamp). There are lots of variations how to do it depending on how strong you need but the best options involve having the broken peice.

    https://www.harborfreight.com/17-in-mini-magnetic-sweeper-62704.html

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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  20. Michael1971

    Michael1971 Farmall Cub

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    I can try finding that piece tonight I attached a photo from Google maps with its approximates path after losing the piece. If I do find it would I just have them well that piece back on or do you guys think brazing would be the way to go. I have no experience brazing so I'm not sure how that would go.

    There is that blue 1990 Ford F-150 regular cab long box for scale. Very precise I know...
     

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