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Discussion in 'Binder Builds' started by Belltownbikes, Feb 25, 2019.
Great progress and a great update Bob! Way cool what you two are doing .
You're making great progress! The tub and frame are looking great!
Really - I do belileve the tub structure is done. We welded the rear quarters on and stripped and sanded them and they are ready for epoxy in a couple of days.
Final fit up - a couple of tweaks to the wheel wells. We used 3M panel adhesive on the wheel well/fender lip join and that seems like i t worked out really well. Feels solid.
When we made up our inner bedisdes, we decided to use a flat top - eliminating the trough and spot weld seam. The outer quarters and inner bedsides are fully welded across the top - I pity the next person that has to remove the quarters. Six lengths of 030 tig wire.
Looking at the top:
We did install weld-nuts on the top rail in the same locations as original. We do not plan to ever run a full hardtop on it - but maybe in time someone will. If our measurements are correct a hardtop could bolt right up.
Finally, yesterday I took the day off from work and just buckled down with the sanders and got it done:
It took about 7 hours of sanding and a couple of hours of cleaning the red dust off of everything in the shop.
The treadplate floor was a pain, but we had a plastic porcupine-looking attachment that worked pretty well getting around the treads. The only problem is that it polished the piece super smooth - so I spent an hour with the needle gun adding some teeth to the metal. There are a couple of areas that will get the eastwood platnium first, but before week's end this tub should be coated in epoxy. And that will be the end of tub work for quite some time. Our attention will turn to the chassis and engine, etc. Looking forward to a little change of pace - the fabrication has been fun though. Thanks for looking - Bob & Finn
Got the epoxy primer on. So now the tub will get set aside for a while. The final filling and fairing won't be until after the winter.
Good day - Bob & Finn
Sweet! And I like your "wooden" jack stand!
Axles are hung. Using the shackles that came off the truck in the rear until we can get it on wheels and weighed up - we'll make some new shackles at that point. With the front shackle reversal deal, we aren't sure where it puts us height wise. We had the axles looking all pretty with KBS Black Top paint over the Eastwood platinum. But the black flaked off just in the handling during re-building. So they'll get scraped down and repainted with the Eastwood chassis black, which seems to hold up better on the over Eastwood product.
Next up is building a tank and all new seals on the engine - the head was out for some cleaning and slight deck shave - just enough to make sure that sealing surface is nice and flat. B&F
Lookin good, another big step!
Wow! You guys are doing great! I'm jealous of that tub ;-) If you want a set of new urethane motor mounts for your I6, let me know. I bought them back when I was first gathering parts. Also, as I was looking at pics of your frame, You may want to box or at least gusset the rearmost body mount hole area. As designed, it is poorly supported and will bend as soon as the weight of the body is put on it. It will be easier now than later.
SC - thanks for the MM offer - but I think we have that handled. And good point on more support for the rear tub landings. It'll cost us a little paint, but well woorth it I agree!
Zipped back to work after dinner to use the big bending brake for our gas tank. Making sure the bends are lined up straight a 2 person job ATMO. Will be putting the boy's welds to the pressure test! The boy exercised his geometry schooling and figured that this will hold 22 gallons. We kept the depth at 10" so that we can use the stock jeep fuel pump/level sender unit.
Feels like progress lately! B&F
Working on the gas tank. View of the interior with the baffles:
A view of the side welds. The boy did a really nice job with these - this weld is a series of linked 1" tacks. He's getting lots of practice with this project and I can see his skills improve all the time - so cool. We will trim the sides down of course but wanted them a little proud for welding just to make sure we have a solid join - and we are still cutting all this stuff by hand.
We are replacing all of the seals on our 4.0 engine. We sent the head out to get cleaned and pressure tested - some of these heads have a tendency to crack depending on their date of manufacture. Ours was good. But, we had the surface decked (very slightly - not boosting any compression here) and the valves and seats ground. Looks great now. Finny trying out his new birthday present:
This weekend our plan is to finish the tank and paint the engine - we don' t have a full weekend though, we are going watch my daughter race her bicycle up in MA - she's up at University of Vermont and we haven't seen her since early September so that will be nice. Next up will be to mate the engine to transmission and work on some engine mounts. Good times! Bob & Finn
Engine stuff this past week or so. Got the engine all cleaned up and painted. The valve cover is actually powercoat "primer" - we might paint it body color or black - we couldn't decide. But, it sure looks pretty:
We did the painting and the reassembly in the basement with the wood stove - wish we had one in the garage! Then we had to scoop it up and drive it back around to the garage:
Then we ran into a bunch of 2 steps forward and 3 steps back and 1 step forward monkey business. Fiirst, we got the flywheel and clutch installed:
And then we realized that the plate between the engine and the tranny that we had was for the automatic transmission that was once on this engine. And we didn't have access to the correct one. So, we pulled everything back off and installed the transmission so that we could get to work on the engine mounts.
We have the rusty old original wheels mounted so that we can easily use the skates to move things around. We swapped the tub and the chassis in the garage bays so the chassis is on the "warm" side. A friend of our gave us a set of "Brown Dog" jeep 4.0 engine mounts, so we didn't think too much about it and bolted the jeep engine mounts onto the engine. We were amazed: the jeep mounts with the brown dog things*just about* fit perfectly! We just had to cut the ears on the brown dog things and re-weld to accomodate the angled engine mounts on the Scout frame:
Oh man! Looking so good! I don't have any pics of the other side, but it was just a bit harder - we just had to offset the mount a couple of inches. We got it tacked up and called it a day. Nice work! Back patting all around. Just the tranny mount to work out and we are golden! This is how we left off:
So we go in the house and clean up and thaw out and have a beer - well, I have a beer the boy has a soda. And we talk through the afternoon - surely there was some lessons to be learned here - missing the tranny plate was an oversite. And how to work out the tranny mount - its a good deal further back than where the stock tranny cross member would be. Is this tranny that much longer than the stock one? Hmm - we better measure. So out to the barn to measure - nope about the same length. So we check something simple: let's measure the distance from the tub mount hole to the shifter hole. Yup - the whole shebang is 6" too far back! Well, I guss most of today was just practice then. And a good learning experience - that shifter location should have been the first dimension we worked out. And I now wonder why we thought the jeep motor mounts would put the engine in the right place - just optimists I guess. Anyway, no harm done. Not much further forward this weekend, but at least no further back...thanks for looking! Bob&Finn
Last night was time to leak check the gas tank we built. We stumbled on a method that was super simple and worked great. We cut a piece of bicycle tube and folded over one end. We slid the other end over the vent opening and clamped it. Pumped it full of air until the tube was inflated - this provided enough pressure to identify 2 pin holes without worrying about over-pressurizing the tank. And then once the pin holes were filled it provided a simple way to see if the pressure was holding. Could also do this with a pressure guage of course, but we didn't have a guage around that was low enough pressure to show the tank was holding ~2#.
As an aside, I was very impressed that the boy welded all of the tank seams and only had 2 pin holes - both in a tricky outside corner seam. Then we made the hole for the jeep pump and the hold-down ring. When we inserted the pump we see it it 0.5" too long. Dang it! We designed the tank around a jeep pump that we had in hand - who knew that they had various lengths? We could have had another 2" of tank depth and that would have been great. Instead we will have to 3-d print a spacer to make the seal. Oh well, moving on.
In other news we have decided that we need to pull the engine back out, and put the tub on the chassis to figure final engine position. A couple too many variables for us to not just spend the extra few minutes it will take us to lift and place the tub on the chassis. B&F
So it was like the hokey-pokey out in the garage this past week or so: put the tub on, take the tub off, put the engine in, take the engine out, put the engine in, take the engine out, put the engine in... But the end result is we have new motor mounts that place the engine correctly.
So here is the tub going on the chassis: we decided that it would be worth the time and effort to determine correct engine placement. Tractor on one end and engine hoist on the other. the chassis is on skates and we slid it right under:
Then we debated about the motor mounts: should we make some mounting brackets that attach to the engine and use the stock chassis landings, or should we use the stock engine bracket and make new chassis landings. We decided to use the stock mounts that bolt to the engine. The stock brackets are really nice and our options were limited IRT making new ones - they would have been long cantivered affairs. Brace yourself purists - we performed a stovck motor mount delete, and then capped the chassis crimp with sheet metal:
My welding on display - when it is not structural I get to do the welding. Then it was hoist the engine into place, making sure we know where center is:
We were given a set of Brown Dog mounts, and attempted to use them nearly as-is (previous post). That didn't work, so we made new sleeves and reused the bushings (you can see them in the brackets above). Then it was measure, measure, measure. We had picked up a portable band saw a couple of months ago and we love it - so much less drama than the cutoff wheel - and it got a workout this weekend. Then the boy got to welding. Combo of TIG and MIG - TIG for the areas that required strength and MIG for the less stressed areas or for areas that needed more fill:
And this is what we came up with:
Both sides. They are different lengths, and offset a bit for/aft too. You can see our plum string hangin in there to help us locate the output shaft in the center:
Then we painted them up and put the engine back in. We will paint then black sometime in the future:
BTW, you may have noticed that we have straps around the tires clamping them to the skates. The tires are original and won't hold air anymore, but we need something there to be able to use the skates. Anyway, because they are flat and squish around depending on the weighting, they will walk themselves off the skates if not strapped down. I thought we were crazy when one of the wheels was off the skate and neither of us had taken it out. Until I saw it happen.
Next up: exhaust, trans mount, finish the gas tank, fuel and rear barke lines and then the tub goes back on - hopefully for good.
Thanks for looking and I hope you all enjoy your thanksgiving: its our favorite holiday - one dedicated to eating and drinking and hangin out with family. B&F
We got the trans mount finished - but I have no pic right now. It's a two piece affair because we wanted to go high on exhaust side and low on driveshaft side - and we used the original trans mounts on the frame. If I had to do it over I would chop those off and replace with a couple of ears and use the same type of mount as the engine. More on that later.
We worked on the exhaust, which wasn't too hard except the header piece. A lot of pie cuts and TIG welding and we have a header that looks OK - and a good appreciation for the folks that can make these things look really nice. I think that making the entire header out of the segments, and not using the longer straights might have made it look better. We probably could have purchased a pre-fab Y, but the boy wasn't hearing of that. I'm torn: I'm really proud of the boy and I like the way it came out - but something looks wacky about it to me - I can't put my finger on it. At any rate the exhaust gasses won't care! 1.75" from the manifolds into a 2.25".
The rest of the exhaust is very simple. Straight back and then a couple of 45's under the frame over the axle. I think that it'll be enough clearance - we have a bout 8" from axle to exhaust unweighted. We are hoping - we want to have it run under the frame rail and then turn outboard after the shackle and perhaps poke out through the corner of the bumper. For now, it'll end with one of those V-clamp flanges and we will make the tailpipe later.
There will be hangers front and rear of the muffler and at the axle and one more towards the tailpipe. We will mount a heatshield on the hanger bracket and our trans mount has a corresponding mount for the forward end of the heat shield. Puts the bottom of the muffler about 1" below the frame rails.
We also did some painting - a coat of epoxy primer and a coat of satin black for the gas tank and one of the inner fenders. I set up a little temporary spray booth in the basement shop and opened up the basement port for the house circulation fan. No stink upstairs, so no complaints.
Next up: final exhaust welding and hangers. Install the gas tank and fuel pump. Plumb fuel pump and rear brake lines. Then the tub goes on and we start on the Megasquirt:
Somehow all of this stuff turns into an engine management system! Should be interesting and fun. We do have a backup plan: Mom is an EE that makes computers talk to machines, so we might have to pull her in!
In other non-IH related news that might be of some interest to folks following along, the next project in line has landed. Finny has been looking at this truck for years as he went past on the bus, thinking someday he'd like to redo a truck like that. He noticed it was for sale and we took a look. The drivetrain is gone, but the cab body is in remarkably good shape for CT - much better that the Scout. So the rule is Scout project has to be complete before truck project starts - so now Finn is even more motivated. The truck will have much less in the way of body work but much more in the way of suspension and driveline work than the Scout - lowered, IFS, 4 link rear, LS, etc. Should be cool. Of course an IH would have been cooler, but you gotta go with the flow sometimes - 1958 Ford F100:
They are not giving these things away, but we did some furious googling to see what comparable trucks were going for and came to be comfortable with where we had landed with the PO. Perhaps a little wacky, but Finny is a kid that has never, ever put a foot wrong so far - so if he wants the coolest car in the HS parking lot that is what we will do. Not to mention when you have a couple thousand of your own time, money, blood, sweat and tears into a project you are likely to not crack it up...
Thanks for looking! Bob&Finn
You two are still doing some amazing work. But, I'm starting to get concerned about Finn.... He is, after all, rather young to start this old truck hording thing. At least I see hope (or disappointment) by not getting an International!
Way back when, when our son was turning 16 and wanted a car, we said you can get whatever you want so long as it has airbags and anti-lock brakes. Oh, and BTW, we will sell you our rather old but well running Volvo (that meets the above criteria) for a song and a dance. Well, that car was just not cool enough. But alas, after a few months of looking, he did end up with it. But he NEVER cleaned the inside or outside. Fast forward a few years, and when he bought his first vehicle (with a payment), it's now spotless and well tended for!
I don't think it is the start of old-truck hoarding mania. Mostly it is just a matter of me keeping him in projects! I do imagine that the Scout and then this truck, and a bunch of other smaller projects he has going on around here will be part of his college-application "portfolio". Shopping that around to the various engineering schools and asking them what *they* have to offer a fellow with this sort of fabrication/garage engineering experience.
Finished up the exhaust last night:
Working on the next phase: figuring out the Megasquirt. I downloaded and printed out ~800 pages of manuals. But it is starting to come together in our heads. At least this part can be done inside where it is warm:
The concept isn't hard: The MS reads the engine sensors and the crank and cam position and then just tells the sparks when to fire and the injectors when to squirt. Figuring the pins on all of the sensors and where they hook to the MS is the current hurdle. Coming up is installation - and for that we are going to need parts of our dash back together (how does that go back together again?). And then learning a new software program, verifying installation and calibrating the sensors. Then actually firing it up! It's interesting in fun, albeit in a very different way than fabricating stuff or assembling stuff. All good! B&F
That kid is a beast. I wish I could meet kids like him. I'd put him in his own bay and make money off of him, lol. Awesome dad you are.
You guys are doing some great work. I wish I'd had the opportunity when I was young, now I just feel like the old dog trying to learn new tricks. I was wondering if you could take a couple of measurements for me, the height to the bottom of the front corner, middle, and rear corner of the frame from the ground? Thanks and keep up the good work.