Belltown Build - 1974 Scout II

Discussion in 'Binder Builds' started by Belltownbikes, Feb 25, 2019.


  1. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    Thanks Matthew. A friend of mine owns "Super Spring" in Hartford. Although he normally works on dumptrucks and commercial stuff, he was able to track down some springs for me. They are more expensive than I thought they would be! Thanks for the info though! Good day - Bob
     
  2. DT466

    DT466 Farmall Cub

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    Reading through your thread again, and I see no one else asked. What engine is that? I don't recognize it.

    Dean
     
  3. Sammy

    Sammy Y-Block King

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    Looked like the AMC built 258 known as IH's thrift six. Originally had one in my junk.
     
  4. supercrouton

    supercrouton Farmall Cub

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    I have a 258 and that’s what I thought too until I saw the two oxygen sensors. I’m guessing it’s a late model 4 liter J**p.
     
  5. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    OK, I knew I'd have to explain this at some point! So, when we got this Scout it had the 258 inline 6, and we were happy about that because we thought the 6 would be cool. The engine was not stuck, so we were encouraged by that. But it hadn't run in 25 years +. The carb was petrified into a solid chunk of metal. So we got to looking into what it would cost us to bring this engine up to "modern driveability" standards. Of course you'd want the Hamilton fuel injection, and that means new manifold, and you might as well do headers. And the old engine needed an alternator and a PS pump. Before you know it you're at ~$3k - with no real knowledge of what the inside of the engine was like. Then a buddy who's doing an LS swap on his jeep offers you his ~70k mile 4.0 for $500, with everything you need but the ECU. Sounds like a better deal! Yea, I know it is a "Jeep" engine - but it is literally the same engine that existed there originally - just 30 years newer. The old 258 and the new 4.0 use an identical block - the only difference on the engine is the head. The old 4-speed tranny would even bolt up.

    The lack of ECU offers an oppurtunity (how's that for corporate speak - it's not a lack of ECU - it's an "oppurtunuity"!) to use a stand-alone ECU. The age of the Scout means that it is exempt from smog here in CT. So we are going to use a megasquirt MS-3 stand alone ECU. This is great because it gives us the chance to wire (and weed out the originally wiring harness) the engine ourselves, and also to tune the engine via a computer ourselves. You might have picked up that much of this project is educational in nature, and the engine management and tuning will be a big part of that. Me and Finn are really looking forward to it. We will also have some help from Mom, who is an electrical engineer that specializes in getting computers to talk to machines - so we can pull her into the project.

    While I'm in the confessional, I'll also say that we are not useing the original 4-speed tranny - altherough we could its a direct bolt up. We will be using a newer NV 3550 5-speed. And, we can't use the D20 transfer case because it won't bolt up to the new tranny, so we picked up a D300 transfer case.

    Finally, this all means that the original engine, tranny and transfer case are all for sale - see the clsssifieds for that. Much to my surpise (not), no one has contacted me looking to take these parts off my hands.

    Whew - feels so good to have the secret off my chest!! Thanks for looking - good day - Bob & Finn
     
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  6. MrKenmore

    MrKenmore Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Don't give it a second thought!!! IH offered AMC engines (I6 and the 401 V8) factory installed! Nice work.
     
  7. DT466

    DT466 Farmall Cub

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    You're certainly not the first and won't be the last to consider this option. I don't know how many actually do it, but the 4.0 comes up in discussion here fairly often.

    Dean
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  8. Jrc55

    Jrc55 Binder Driver

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    The Jeep 4.0 is an AWESOME engine.
     
  9. Alex

    Alex Farmall Cub

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    That's the AMC 4.0. And yes, it is an awesome engine. Virtually bulletproof.
     
  10. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    We got some paint on the bottom of the tub this past weekend and started in on the chassis. The chassis is in pretty good shape, especially comapred to the tub. We are going to do a reverse shackle conversion so we have some cutting and welding to do. Also going to cut off the old clutch pivot - the NV2550 is a hydraulic unit, so we don't need that pivot. So, I think we are approaching the end of the filthy messy work with the stripping of the chassis. Good times!

    IMG_2634.JPG

    Thanks for looking! Bob & Finn
     
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  11. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    Surprises. We were cutting the shackle hangers off in advance of installing the reverse-shackle kit and discovered that at some point the shackle hanger on the PS must have torn off and was welded back on. No one bothered to fix the frame rail damage before re-welding the hanger though:

    IMG_2635.JPG

    We also cut off the clutch pivot bracket as we are going with a hydraulic clutch. That bracket is perfectly designed to capture debris to hold moisture against the frame and get the rot working. A little hard to tell with this pic, but we found that the frame was just about rusted through behind this bracket. If you have one, maybe attempt to clean it out or at least squirt some of your favorite anti-rust goop between the bracket and the frame from time to time:

    IMG_2636.JPG

    Good day - Bob & Finn
     
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  12. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    Fangs!
    IMG_2638.JPG

    IMG_2639.JPG

    We ended up with 2 holes to patch in the frame - one under that shackle hanger and another behind the clutch pivot. Got patches on those. Other than that the frame looks good. Finished off the reverse-shackle install. Hoping to finish cleaning the frame and getting it painted this weekend. We had to buy a heater for the garage - seems like we've run out of good warm painting weather. B&F
     
  13. Chris Breedlove

    Chris Breedlove Farmall Cub

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    I like the work you're doing with your son on the Scout. Way to go dude. I hope my kid is interested as yours is when he's old enough.

    For springs, I would suggest going the custom route, regardless of lift or no lift. Try Alcan first. If you want an off the shelf, everyday, then go with Skyjacker. Avoid Rough Country at all costs. For a few hundred bucks more, you can get custom springs tailored to your vehicle. IH Parts America also offers a kit. To order custom springs, they will want weight details of your rig. They should have a lot of data already, however.
     
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  14. Justutt67

    Justutt67 Farmall Cub

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    Looking good Beltown. Just an observation all the reverse shackle setups I have seen with the fangs looked like the fangs were set outboard of the frame about a 1/4” to a 1/2”. In the pics it looks like yours are flush with the outside of the frame. Could be an illusion but might want to check your width on the front so the springs line up on the axle correctly.
     
  15. winchested

    winchested Y-Block King

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    As was said, your fronts will now not line up with your rear shackle position. You will have to be creative with the rear shackles to now get them to line up probably shave the shackle with the bushing and add another 1/4" washer to the other shackle half to line them up square.

    Also why did you cut the frame out in this section? From IHpartsamerica.com the fangs are plated to be welded under the existing frame for strength.

    You can see in my photo how they're supposed to be offset from the frame. [​IMG]
     
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  16. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    Yup - we wanted our springs to stay in the stock position - centered under the frame rail. The reason the fangs are pushed outboard is to line up with the new through-frame shackles. The outboard shackle does not have a spacer and the result is the springs are moved outboard by about 1/2" from the stock position. We wanted to keep them in the same place as stock and just modified the supplied shackles to make that happen. Keen eye! B&F
     
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  17. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    The part we cut out was the section of gussett that extends from the frame rails to the front cross member. This gusset prevented the fangs from sitting directly on the frame. Once the fangs were welded directly to the frame, the gusset was welded to the side of the fang, re-establishing that connection. B&F
     
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  18. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    Cleaning and painting weekend. Not my favorite. But the changes are noticeable! We spent weeks working on parts of the tub and Mom couldn't tell if we did anything. A few hours of paint and she really thinks we are making some progress!

    Spent a bunch of time wire wheeling/scrubbing/cleaning the frame inside and out. Uncovered a couple of cracks which we welded up. Sprayed the inside of the frame with some green Eastwood inside of frame paint. Once we get it all assembled we will douse the inside of the frame with fluid film - we do that every year with our van.

    All cleaned off:

    IMG_2644.JPG :

    Painted with the Eastwood platnium - we chose that because it is supposed to have good adhesion over clean metal as well as rusty metal - we have a combo:

    IMG_2645.JPG

    Given the way it smells, it must be great!

    Once that dried we coated with the chassis black:

    IMG_2649.JPG

    Still have another coat to do on this side, and then flip to finish the bottom side.

    We also painted the bottom of the tub. We had previously painted it with the Eastwood platnium. We went with DIY lizard skin. We got the ceramic beads here:

    http://hytechsales.com/insulating_paint_additives.html

    We mixed ceramic beads with rustoleum satin black paint. It sprayed on with a normal gun with a 1.4 opening and covered very nicely. Hytech recommends 2 coats and that results in a nice texture - like 160 grit sandpaper. We coated the firewall and the whole bottom of the tub with a quart of paint mixed with about 1 cup of beads. We still have a bunch of beads left and will use them elsewhere. We will probably coat the inside of the firewall and maybe the parts of the roof we are going to use with it.

    IMG_2650.JPG

    IMG_2651.JPG

    So I guess time will tell how well it holds up. It looks great now, but the rustoleum seems kind of low-tech.

    Meanwhile, Finn has the engine torn apart and getting cleaned up. We are going to do a full seal replacement while we have it apart. And then paint it up nice. Very close to be done with nasty rusty pieces - at least for a while. Thanks for looking - B&F
     
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  19. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    Thanks! I hope for you that your kid is interested. We have had a great time with this project. My other son not so interested, but maybe when it gets to be cleaner work and we have the computer plugged into the engine he will come around.

    We went with some custom springs from our buddies at Super Spring in Hartford CT. Incidentially, they have a Scout they use as a plow truck. A true working truck, with a history of as-needed repairs. They love it though - it can really move some snow.

    IMG_2633.JPG
     
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  20. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    We had a reasonably warm day on Saturday, so we pushed the tub out in the sun and applied some roadkill sound damping material to the bottom. We will see how it holds up, it was a box I had leftover from the last project - I've been looking a that box under the bench for a long time good to use it finally. We don't want to put it on the inside because we want to bedline the inside of the tub and will not use any carpet.

    IMG_2655.JPG

    We also test fitted our springs and the "revised" shackles. We took a guess on the frame-side pivot location because we have no way to weight the springs to determine where the pivot should go. Well, not a complete guess - we just kept the distance (from the spring fixed end to the shakle pivot) the same as stock. We are using stock-dimension springs and want to keep the lift on the low side. I hope it all works out. When we get the axles on we can figure out how long the rear shackles need to be to keep things level - or maybe we will put temporary rear shackles in and wait until the scout is re-assembled to determine rear shackle length.

    IMG_2654.JPG

    We flipped the tub back over once we got the roadkill on - the work on the bottom side is finished. We went firewall onto the old mattress and just walked to over - much easier than the rotisserie method. We also flipped the chassis over and moved it to the other side of the garage. Then we hung some plastic to make a DIY paint booth - or a "warm room" - in the garage so we can do the painting we need to do soon. We swapped sides so we can use the window as a vent when we get to painting the stinky stuff. Would have been better to get the tub in epoxy before it got cold, but it is what it is. I think the "warmroom" will also be handy for just working on the Scout through the winter.

    IMG_2657.JPG

    And those front fenders had been hiding behind a pile of doors for the last few months - long enough for us to kinda forget how bad they are. I think that we can repair them for sure - but it's going to be some finicky work around the fender lip. Makes us think that perhaps Bushwacker flares might be in our future. We did pick up a couple of extra fenders when we bought that windshiled frame and they have decent fender lips, so there will be some cutting and grafting going on to make one decent set out of two lousy ones. Thanks for looking B&F
     
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