Belltown Build - 1974 Scout II

Discussion in 'Binder Builds' started by Belltownbikes, Feb 25, 2019.


  1. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    We had a good weekend of Scout work. Trying to keep momentum going while still enjoying "normal" life. The big news is that we actually have all 6 tub mounts in place - and the A pillars are connected to the B pilalrs on both sides!

    Front tub mount, same deal as PS. 1" X 4" rectangular tube. 1.5" OD tube welded in to provide bolt socket:

    IMG_2366.JPG

    Here is a shot of that big step repair welded in, still a couple of little pieces left of finish it off:

    IMG_2360.JPG

    Here is a pic from the front, attached to the rocker and the bottom of the B pillar. Coated with cold galvanizing compound - trying to coat everything that is going to be covered up and hard to access. I really wish I knew 5 weeks ago what I know now: I would have just removed the whole step and rebuilt it from scratch on the bench - would have been much easier.

    IMG_2365.JPG

    And here is where the boy figures he's earning $180/hr. This dog leg was totally roached - full swiss cheese (see above for reference). But there was just enough left to see the shapes needed for the different planes of the dogleg. He started from the bottom and made a template of the section. Cut out the old and tacked in the new. Then moved to the next section. Five sections later he had duplicated the dogleg in place. I was off sweeping or grinding or some other gruntwork. I wish I had some in-progress pics, but he was done before I knew it - took him an hour.

    IMG_2364.JPG

    We are just about done digging out the rust. Got some on the DS kick panel and the bed sides. We will completely remove and replace the bedsides. We decided to make the sides ourselves - we figure we are way off the tracks in regard to OE with the treadplate floor that smooth sides won't kill us. Also the cost of 2 sides + shipping is about equal to the Megasquirt ECU we're going to use. More on that is a couple of months. Thanks for looking. Bob & Finn
     
  2. Jrc55

    Jrc55 Binder Driver

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    yes, having that center section on the bench really makes things easier. Great job on that dogleg, your son is learning so much!
     
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  3. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    Some good progress this weekend - even though we ran out of MIG wire then MIG gas. But the parts we were working on were fine with TIG, so we swapped over to that. We got the last of the digging done on the tub - the DS kickpanel was the last part that needed to come off out, and it is gone:

    IMG_2372.JPG

    That dogleg was the last of the four to be worked as well. Hard to see in this pic but the welds have not been ground. And, it still needs some re-work - it drifted inward a bit and got welded into place before anyone noticed. A lesson there somewhere. The boy tells me that it takes 2X theTIG filler for this little dog leg as compared to a whole bicycle frame.

    We also got some floor braces installed on the PS. We ended up with 14ga sheet for the floors - we wanted 16ga, but an issue with our local metal shop (sadly, closing) nixed that. We are going to use one continuous sheet from the step to a floor brace located at the back side of the forward tub mount. Then the tub front slope will attach to the forward side of the tub mount. Then we will have one smaller piece between those sections with an access hole to the bolt. This plan will seal the top side of the tub mount from the elements. We really didn't need to make the bolt recess in the tub mount with this arrangement and maybe we will weld a washer over the recess.

    IMG_2370.JPG

    We also completed the A pillar attachment to the rocker and did some rear fender well work. We had to chop most of the fender well off. It was rotted from about the inner bed wall line outboard - and there were multiple patches ontop of rust out there - just a mess. But the inner portion of the fenderwell is good - which is cool because that would be the toughest part to re-do with the curve and all. We are going to roll some 14ga sheet to rebuild the wheel well and hope to re-use the outer well well to rear quarter filler panels. They don't look too bad - I'll sandblast them today and see what we've got. They were probably installed soon before the truck was parked 25 years ago. Although by installed I mean pop-rivited onto rusty metal.

    And finally we cheated and just dropped our axles off at the local offroad truck place for teardown/rebuild. They will take everything apart and come up with a parts list and give us the components back. We will sandblast everything and get it powdercoated. Then back to the shop for re-assembly. It does feel like cheating, but [insert excuses here]. It will jump us a bunch of weeks of nasty work too.

    Thanks for reading along - Bob & Finn
     
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  4. Kohler

    Kohler Farmall Cub

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    Good luck with the wheel wells. The tough part for me was getting the arch filler to line up with the quarter panel arch. Had to rebuild it more than once. If your quarter panels are in decent shape you can clamp them on and make decent templates.
     
  5. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    This weekend we got some floor in! We also finished up the step and floor braces on the DS. Studying for final exams has impacted my welder's time available for Scout work - so I had to dig up the extra helmet and the magnifier and get to welding myself. The mig is certainly not hard - but it's 100% vision. So my tack-tack-tack welding will be confined to places that will not be visible - for the most part. I did do the patches on the rear of the tunnel on the DS, but the grinder is my friend. Once we got the tunnel patches in - there is 5 or six on the DS along that tunnel "rib" I see that there is a good sized wave. We should have paid more attention to keeping that flat when repairing, but no. So we will cut the rib and flatten the wave and reweld the rib once we get everything where we want it. Of course it means grinding out a couple of the floor braces we have in on that side.
    The floor not fully welded in. And you can see the tunnel patches/attachment to the step. All of that will be covered by a piece of 14 ga treadplate.:
    IMG_2380.JPG

    The DS tunnel patches. If I had to do this over, I would have replaced the whole tunnel rib with one large piece. We had rot where the tub mount attaches and where each of the floor braces lands and the rear portion over the muffler. Made worse by previous "repairs" - I get it the Scout was a plow truck in a former life and the owners just needed to keep it moving - but still. So anyway, that amounted to 5 or 6 patches in this area, and it all ended up not as nice as I would like to see:
    IMG_2379.JPG
    The step. Again - if anyone happens to be reading through this thread looking for what not to do: I wish I had taken the whole step out and rebuilt it on the bench. I would have been much easier. Anyway, its all rebuilt and my tacking is in full display here. We're not going to grind this down - no reason to in my mind.
    IMG_2377.JPG

    And that's it so far. Thanks for reading! Bob & Finn
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  6. oneof3k

    oneof3k High Wheeler

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    Agreed on your MIG welding thoughts....but the grinder is definitely not my friend! For whatever reason, I tend to take my time welding, but I get so darn impatient during grinding that things can, and often do, go to hell for me!

    That's why you need to start a second build after this one!

    The work you, Jrc55, and others have done on your Scout IIs is, IMHO, significantly harder than the Scout 80/800s with all the compound curves. While I love curves :ban:, I can do without dog legs, etc. you guys have to deal with.
     
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  7. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    So the rest of finals and a work-travel trip for me slowed things down, but thats ok. Before I went, I looked into some sort of MIG torch light - again with the vision thing - if I could just see what the heck I'm doing, things would be much better. I have a flashlight on a magnet, and that is ok. There's an outfit that makes a flashlight that has a clamp for the MIG torch - but reviewers seem to be generally unimpressed. So I found 12 led penlights for $23 on amazon, with good reviews. And they are nice penlights - metal case and they come with batteries. For the price they can't be beat. I tried taping one to the torch, but that left a shadown right where the wire is. I could have the boy 3-d print up a clamp of sorts to get the light where I need it. But then there the problem with the extra stuff on the torch hitting things and getting in the way. So I zip-tied a couple to may welding hat and it is awesome!

    IMG_2405.JPG

    Between the headlights and the magnifier I can actually see! I know I'll take some grief from boy wonder, but that is ok with me!

    Looking better:

    IMG_2403.JPG

    Thanks for looking! Bob & Finn
     
  8. oneof3k

    oneof3k High Wheeler

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    I've had similar issues the past two years related to CSS (can't see sh!t) during welding. That's a great idea. I'm still old school and use a flood light that helps, but I think the helmet light idea is better. Good job Bob!
     
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  9. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    We had to take some extreme measures on the DS tunnel rib. After installing 5 seperate patches along that rib - rotted where each of the floor braces landed plus a couple of other spots - turned out that the tunnel floor had quite a wave. We didn't really notice it (or maybe we ignored it) until we put the new floor braces in, But once we set the metal for the floor in to start sizing it up, the wave became very apparent. So we had to do some strategic cutting and prying to get the tunnel rib back straight. All ended up fine. But it did make me think that we would have been much better off if we had just cut out the entire rib and replaced it with one large piece. Again, live and learn...
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  10. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    After getting over the tunnel rib issue we were back on course. the weekend was a bit tough with a bike race on Saturday and a picnic on Sunday so we didn't get much done (we had a lot of fun otherwise, just no Scout work). But school vacation started Tuesday so the boy kicked it off by installing the DS floor. So we actually have a whole floor on the DS! This is a pretty big milestone for us. We used that rectangular tube for the body mount. There is a floor brace attached to that tube. The large portion of the floor extends from that floor brace aft to the step. The angled "toe panel" extends from the firewall to the front of the body mount - it's a weird shaped piece with the angles and such. The valley between these two parts is covered by a third piece. You can see the access hole for the body mount bolt in this piece. That will just have a rubber plug installed when all's done.

    IMG_2407.JPG IMG_2406.JPG
    IMG_2408.JPG

    We will do some cleanup of the welds and then be on to the PS. Then we move back to the bed area and fun with wheel wells! Then bedsides and we will have a full tub! We can see the light at the end of this particular tunnel - it has been fun and interesting. I think though, if I was intent on restoring a Scout from the start (as opposed to rebuilding this particular vehicle) and/or if I knew then what I knew now I would have looked for another tub. On the other hand, we have learned a lot and showed some of the family naysayers that it can be done - or that we are crazy - or both. Good times! Bob & Finn
     
  11. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    We have a floor from the front all of the way to the back! We used 12 ga treadplate that we got cheap from the local metal shop (sadly, now closed). We did make a template of the old floor before we pulled it out, but there was so much "repair" work to the bedside/wheel well and floor junction that we had worries about how it would fit. It fit ok - just a little trimming. The wheel well holes were plasma cut, but are a little rough (it was the plasma operator's second day of being 21 - and the first time he was dealing with a raging hangover at work - if I knew about that beforehand I would have just come back another day). Anyway, in the continured spirit of just doing things as we see fit we used 1 X 0.125" flat stock to honeycomb the floor. Well, except where we ran out and had to use some angle. We will address the fuel tank hangers when we get there.

    IMG_2416.JPG

    IMG_2418.JPG

    IMG_2419.JPG

    We also got the step facecut and fitted and painted with the zinc paint on the backside. Monday it'll get welded in:

    IMG_2420.JPG

    Next up: wheelwells. These are going to be a little fiddly. Luckly the inboard compound-curve portion of the wells are still intact. There was a big rot line where the well contacted the bedwalls. And outboard of the bedsides was pretty roached too. We have some new 16 ga rolled and ready for use on the arched part. The "filler" pieces that wer installed 26 years ago are still good once the rivits are removed and they are sandblasted. So we can reuse those. We will have to add a short vertical around the perimeter of the floor wheelwell opening and then place our wheelwell on top of those to get the height correct. The wheelwell/floor junction was so goofed up with mutiple patches/patching methods that we lost about 1" from the bottom. Hopefully we can make it all look ok.

    Then bedsides.

    Thanks for looking - Bob & Finn
     
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  12. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    And the step face is welded in. And lots of chitchat regarding the rebuilding of the wheel wells and getting them to fit right with the outer quarters. The "fillers" that were on the truck are structurally sound and useable really do not fit that great.

    IMG_2423.JPG
     
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  13. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    Wheelwell weekend! So after all of the chitchat and debating about the best way to get the wheel wells (WW) built and mated to the outer quarter panels we finally got to it this weekend. After cutting all of the rot and reminants of former "repairs" off the WW we were left with only about a 6" slice of the inboard end. This is the best end to have though. Another challenge was that these slices no longer were long enough to reach the level of the floor. So we ended rebuilding these things in a few steps. First we trimmed and squared up the piece we had left. Then we butt welded an extension on:
    IMG_2435.JPG
    Our extension pieces are 14 ga - only because that was the last sheet of cheap metal I could get before our local shop closed up. We rolled them to be about the same curve as the original WW. Should be sturdy enough. We used panel clamps and tacked it into position, then did some hammer work to keep things as straight across the top as we could.

    We then curved some 3" wide strips of 14 ga to fit the WW cut outs in our floor pan. (As an aside here, we have hoped and wondered if the WW cut outs in our floor pan were in the right place - we made templates, but there was so much bondo and goop at the oringinal floor plan/WW junction that there was some question in our minds if they would be placed correctly. Turns out they are - or at least close enough) To get the WW a the correct height we had to add about 0.75" to the bottom. So these strips extend 0.75" over the level of the floor. We tacked them to the floor. Then we placed the wheelwell tub on top and tacked it into place. Some tapping here and there to make things fit nice and we welded it up.
    IMG_2432.JPG

    Then we added the flat piece filler on the inboard side. We had to cut a little more off the original wheelwell on the inboard side just because of more former "repair". We needed to keep as much of the original on the curves because cutting that off shortens the well.

    The WW is not trimmed up in the above pic. And what isn't here is a WW extension that will continue the arc of the WW all the way down to the bottom of the fender. We can't remember if there was anything there when we got the truck. I think that there might be a "mud gusset" on some years in there - and in fact bought one from SSS when I bought some pieces of sheetmetal. But for the life of me I can't figure out where it goes/how it fits. And we are so far down the road of just making things how we want them I'm inclined to just keep going that way.

    From the inside it looked good. And it was exciting seeing a WW installed on the floor!
    IMG_2427.JPG

    Now comes the process of fitting the WW to the outer quarter. We have the advantage of no inner bed sides at this point. This portion of the repair would be very frustrating if the bedsides were in place. As it was we had the quarter on/off a dozen times. This is where being a team of two is fantastic - I put the quarter on myself a couple fo times when the boy was off doing something else and it is no fun - I feel for you solo guys at times like that. Anyway, quarter on/off; triim/trim - get it so the WW is fitted so that there is an equal distance all around.

    IMG_2437.JPG


    Then, make a template. That moon shaped piece you see on the floor above was cut after making a template. the bottom curve is the quarter fender lip arc. the top is the WW arc plus a little. Slide that arc down and tack it into place - we tacked on the underside. Then slide in a strip on top of the fender lip and tack that into place. We get to this:

    IMG_2441.JPG
    Which is where we ended. These pieces will get fully welded and trimmed up. Once cool thing about this method is that there will be on ledge on the fender lip for dirt and crap to collect on.

    We still have to do these filler pieces on the passenger side. Then on to bedsides. Then we flip!

    Thanks for looking! Bob & Finn
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  14. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    Summer travel and heat has slowed the project a bit. But we are slowly plugging along. We are making our own inner bedsides. WE brought them down to town to our buddy's shop to use his roller and roll in some ribs. Again going off the orignal design spec here. The ribs don't match the original, but will have a similar look to them. The bed sides will be flat across the top - we do not need the flange for spot welding. We will install some weld nuts to allow installation of the top - but do not anticipate using the top.

    IMG_2457.JPG

    Thanks for looking - Bob & Finn
     
  15. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    Score! Local craiglist Ad just had a blurry pic of "1979 IH Parts". A couple of emails back and forth and I understand that they are Scout parts - and he has a windshield frame. We went over yesterday and picked up the windshield frame and the nose and fenders. the frame is in fantasitc condition! So much better than the one we had - and it was cheap! This will save us a lot of finicky forming and patching.

    IMG_2464.JPG

    We immediately took out the windshield and observed that the gasket lip was pretty good - a few small sections of rot. We took the wire wheel to them and uncovered 4 small holes. Ground back to good metal and filled them in. A little bit more filling to do, but this is easy work.
    IMG_2465.JPG

    WE also picked up the nose and the fenders. the nose is generally better than the one we have, with the exception of a dent/tear above the DS headlisht bucket. We will cut that piece off our original nose and transplant it on the new nose. The fenders are not as good as our originals, but the wheel well lips are better. So, some cut and transplant again on our fenders and we will be good to go.
    IMG_2463.JPG

    Seller had some more interesting parts, like a set of sliding rear windows, a good tailgate and decent hood. A dis-assembled 345 V-8, etc. I didn't buy any of that because we didn't need it - I could have bought the rear sliding windows cheap and re-sold them but he's looking to make some money with these parts, as they came to him as a payment for something. I may post some of the parts on his behalf in the classifieds. But, if you've read this far and you are interested in some of these itmes let me know and I will pass along his contact info.

    Good day - Bob&Finn
     
  16. Kohler

    Kohler Farmall Cub

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    Excellent find. Must be nice to live in an area where you can come across deals like that.
     
  17. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    Not complaining about family vacations, because they sure are fun. But, tough to get anything done when you're not home. Anyway me and the boy are back at it. We have been working on the inner bedsides. A few weeks ago we rolled in some ribs (see above). We then welded the 2 sections together and then bent them. We are eliminating the trough on the top of the bedsides. We will be welding the quarters on and do not need the flange for spot welding. Flat and smooth across the top of the bedrails - I think it'll look good. We did put some holes along the top rail and atttached some weld nuts to the underside if we ever want to use the stock hardtop - which i do not think we we will, but more to follow on that. The fitment around the wheelwells was tricky, because the walls angle outboard towards the bottom. Lots of head scratching and still didn't come out like we wanted it to. But, it is done and we are happy.

    In progress:
    IMG_2521.JPG

    Completed, outside:
    IMG_2524.JPG

    Here you can see we've put an access hatch on the passenger side too. We figured that it is a big void there and we might be able to use it for something. Also, access will aloow us to fluid film the crap out of that area when its all buttoned up. You can also see the heat mark from our attempt to "heat and quench" shrink a bow in that area. Can't say we were super successful - more research to be done to figure that out.

    Inside:
    IMG_2523.JPG

    So, it's not stock looking by any stretch, but we think it looks pretty good. And it saved us ~$600 vs buying bedsides. That bit of red is the only salvageable piece of the back end of the tub - but still grateful we had that piece.

    This week we will finish up the other side and then a few odds and ends. Then we will ship the whole tub off to sandblast. Getting close - on the tub. Then onto chassis and drivetrain - without giving too much away our drivetrain plans may well eliminate us from a purist's xmas card list! But the heck wihe naysayers - I've got a boy who has ideas.

    Thanks for looking! Bob & Finn
     
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  18. oneof3k

    oneof3k High Wheeler

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    Welcome home and back to work (on the Scout II). Impressive progress to say the least!

    Until a few years ago, here in CO, your access hatch would have been a great place to store, oh, say contraband. Now we can just keep the stuff on the dash! Don't know about CT though!
     
  19. supercrouton

    supercrouton Farmall Cub

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    Wow, You and your son are making great progress! I have to replace the inner and outer rear quarters too and am not looking forward to it. It seems like it would be a challenge to get the top bed rail located right. How did you reference your final position before final welding? Does the outer quarter determine where everything goes? Mine has no hard top to test fit as a reference.
     
  20. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    We examined the original inner bedsides carefully. The bedsides align with a certain shape on both the B and C pillars, so we aligned the new bedsides accordingly. It appeared to us that the top rail is a straight shot from the B to C pillars. Also, the top of the inner bedside aligns with the top of the pinch weld flange on the outer quarter. The tricky part if you are making your own is landing the bedside on the wheelwell - the walls angle outboard at the bottom and its hard to figure where the bedside lands until you cut the bedside. Also, we found the C pillar incllined slightly forward.
    We were also able to keep one side in place while we did the first for reference which helped a lot. Mostly we just took our time and checked and checked again - and still screwed it up here and there. But it is metal so NBD in the end.
    Finally, we are thinking that the hardtop will never be used. We'd only need it in the winter, and this vehicle will never see the salty roads around here. I think that the top will still fit, because we just eliminated the trough "filler". We did include the top attachment holes. But if it doesn't fit I will not be heartbroken.
    I'm lucky in that I have someone to bounce my ideas off of out in the garage - I'm pretty sure I would not have taken on a project of this scope without the boy.

    Good luck! Bob
     

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