Belltown Build - 1974 Scout II

Discussion in 'Binder Builds' started by Belltownbikes, Feb 25, 2019.


  1. RinTX

    RinTX High Wheeler

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    I’ve been self learning how to paint with a spray gun the last several years. I still haven’t figured out why sometimes it just doesn’t lay down the way I expected. All the variables that Mongo/Greg mentioned. I still enjoy the challenge and find it rewarding.
    Dust and bugs are always a problem. One trick I saw - don’t know if you did this - wet the floor down and use a little pump sprayer to keep it damp. Really helps to have an assistant for that. Helps Keep any dust on the floor.

    Edit - can’t wait to see how the cut and buff goes. Also to see it assembled in the sunlight.
     
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  2. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    It's just too rough to cut and buff our way out of this one. Sanding it all back with 320/400/600 and giving it another try after consulting with a couple of guys I know that actually *know* how to paint. I've got some things to try before the next coats. What's another 20 hours of sanding anyway - quality time! Bob & Finn
     
  3. mongocanfly

    mongocanfly High Wheeler

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    Been there...done that...itll work out..!!
     
  4. mongocanfly

    mongocanfly High Wheeler

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    Bob..could you walk us thru what you did step by step from bare metal to paint?
    Like a condensed version
     
  5. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    Sure Greg - be happy to:

    * after metal work was finished everything was given a coat of Eastwood epoxy primer - on the tub this was last fall
    * filling next: we used eastwood contour filler. Most of the epoxy primer was sanded off at this point when fairing the filler. Of course it left primer under the filler.
    * once all filler was done we sprayed everything with a coat of PPG omni epoxy primer and had terrible orange peel. I wasn't so concerned about this coat, because high build was going on next, but I was concerned about the next coat: we needed to get the orange peel under control for the layer of epoxy under the urethane. This is where we sought some advice from the paint store and farted around with the gun controls and thinning the epoxy. It seemed to work.
    * next was 2 coats of high build primer, which went on very nice. Blocked down to 600 grit and felt like glass.
    * another coat of the omni epoxy primer. It went on pretty good. Some consistent texture, but seemed manageable. To check coverage, we sprayed the grill with the white omni urethane - and it covered well - well enough to feel we were good to go with the rest of the urethane. We got some fish eyes so we will have to sand it down and recoat, and we changed the way we prepare the panels for paint.
    * finally: single stage urethane. Again a PPG omni product. Blue in shade, non metallic, nothing fancy. We put on the first "tack coat" pretty light and then aimed for better coverage in successive coats. We did 5 laps of everything - so 5 coats. It took 30 minutes to get from one end of our pile of things to paint to the end of the tub. It never really looked like it was flowing out. Humid out - we had to change the desiccant in the air line after coat #3.

    After describing this to my painting friends, along with some gun settings, I think my problem was both not enough air and not enough paint getting through the gun. The fan was 6" top to bottom, at most. We were aiming for ~25 at the gun, with the fan control all the way open, but the fluid control only open 2 turns.

    We are going to make the following changes:
    1. A regulator at the gun - using the regulator at the compressor is not accurate or repeatable enough for us newbies.
    2. Open the fluid control most of the way
    3. Wait 30 minutes between coats to let some more solvents evaporate out.
    4. Don't do all of our pieces at once - perhaps the tub in one sitting and the rest in the next.

    I'd welcome any additional advice! Good day - Bob & Finn
     
  6. oneof3k

    oneof3k High Wheeler

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    B&F, I'm far from a paint expert, in fact I consider myself nothing more then an "interested hobbyist" so don't take these words too seriously. The two things I question with your procedural description above was that 1) I was taught (by my ex-painter brother) to keep the fluid control fully open and 2) putting on too much paint/too many coats might not help the cause. No clue if either of these impacted your results?

    Like I said, I'm far from accomplished, but after several gallons of primer and paint, I'm starting to "feel" a little more comfortable making adjustments on the fly (e.g., air pressure, fan pattern, and distance from the work piece). That comes with experience. I feel very fortunate in not having to redo anything major to date, even with shooting single stage metallic. It must be beginner's luck and the large distance from Mongo!

    Wishing you guys the best for the next go around!
     
  7. mongocanfly

    mongocanfly High Wheeler

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    I agree with Ed...keep your distance from me..I've had to respray nearly ever panel I've done....Haha

    But I would definitely have a regulator at the gun...my orange peel issues were that I only had about 12psi at the gun inlet..when I got it to 30psi it made a huge difference...paint flowed so much better..
    On my air hose setup, I use 2 hoses...in the middle where the hoses connect I have a canister water trap and a air filter..I run full air 120psi all the way to the reg at the gun..
    What spray gun are you using?
    If your getting fisheyes one cause may be oil in your air and lines...you may want to get new hoses to use only for painting and nothing else, and run a filter before it..you made no mention of wiping down your panels.(I'm sure you did though)..but i wipe mine down about 3 times with wax and degreaser right before paint.. and if your painting in a open shop it makes it hard to keep everything clean..
    On setting the gun, you need a big surface to test spray..I use masking paper hanging on the wall..
    I have my fluid control almost wide open.i pull the trigger full open, turn the knob in till I feel it hit the trigger, then about a half turn more, and that's it...I make sure my air pressure is right at 30psi with the trigger pulled..I assume your gun has a fan control...I start with it wide open...holding the gun about 8in from the paper give it a shot and look at the pattern...with my old gun my pattern control would be about 75%..with this new gun I'm not sure where I'll have to set it..I'm sure you have looked at YouTube but theres tons of videos on seting up a spray gun
    I'm guilty of trying to do to much at once also..so keep your panels to a manageable level..and even if you wait a hr between coats it wont hurt anything..I sprayed some parts one afternoon and put another coat on them the next morning with no issues..and only doing a few panels means if you mess up it's less work to correct ..
    stick with it ..itll all come together....or you can do like me and just keep redoing till it works out...
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  8. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    OK - so we got a nice coat of paint on! We made a bunch of changes - and there is always the fact that I'm new to painting and getting better with each session behind the gun.

    Anyway, we knew one of the main problems was not enough air. We put a regulator at the gun and shortened the hose. Now we could get ~27# at the gun. My manual says we should spray at 23, so we were able to squeeze down a bit. Our little compressor: a 2hp vertical can model looks the part, but really can *barely* keep up. My buddy advised to just take my time and do one panel at a time and let the compressor catch up. We also needed a lot more paint, so we opened up the fluid needle almost all the way. We prepped the garage better: putting up the center tarps and hanging plastic and wetting the floors. We taped a led light to the front of the gun and I hung another one from my shirt.

    I just took my time and then left about 40 minutes between coats. Two coats looked really good. We went for a third on the first batch of pieces, except for the doors. Now that we look at the doors with only 2 coats, we see we need to put another coat on. We ended up with some dust and nibs that should come out easy with a light wet sand and buffing. We also ended up with some runs - the consequence of laying much more paint. Seems like all of my runs were on the first coat.

    We did doors, hood, tailgate, nose, cowl, etc on the first day. We did end up with some fish eyes, but not too bad and we will live with them. the tub and windshield frame was second day and went on just about perfect.

    Here it is all sanded back down with 400 grit - a combo of wet and dry sanding:

    IMG_3126.JPG.png IMG_3127.JPG.png

    The "paint booth" setup:
    IMG_3129.JPG.png
    IMG_3131.JPG.png

    And a shot of the quarter - nice and smooth:

    IMG_3130.JPG.png

    So we will wait a couple of days and then scuff the doors for another coat. And we will figure out how to address the runs we have and then a wetsand and buff. While we give the paint some time to cure, we have to figure out the radiator - our engine swap has left us in a bit of a tricky spot with that. We just made a rookie mistake and didn't push the engine back as far as we could/should have - we used the shifter coming up through the existing shifter hole as our fore/aft guide - and didn't think to also look at the front. We can fit everything in there, but have to work out the plumbing a bit. Live and learn!

    Anyway, happy to be over this hurtle for the most part now. Good day - Bob & Finn
     
  9. J.J.

    J.J. Lives in an IH Dealership

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    much closer for you guys!

    JJ in TN
     
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  10. mongocanfly

    mongocanfly High Wheeler

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    looks nice Bob..!!!
     
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  11. RinTX

    RinTX High Wheeler

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    I’m certainly very much a novice on the paint and runs so take this advice with a grain of salt - I have seen videos on the internet where guys deal with runs by first taking a razor blade to them. Then they start the process of blending and then the buff and cut.
    I think that color looks really nice.
     
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  12. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    We have been moving along with all sorts of odds and ends, giving the paint a good amount of time to harden up before we go to cutting and buffing. We were planning on re-spraying the doors, because they didn't come out as good as the rest. So, because we were planning on respraying anyway we tried our hand on wetsanding the orange peel and then buffing to see what could happen. We found that we can buff that orange peel right off and make the pant look great. Now, there are a couple of things we have to address still: a couple of gouges where we tried various methods of run removal. And - visible scratches from the 600 grit we started with on the orange peel. I'm going to start again today with the 1000 and see if I can get those scratches out. If not, no biggie: we were planning on re-spraying anyway. If it works, we are ahead.

    At any rate, the paint looks really nice when buffed out:
    IMG_3137.JPG IMG_3138.JPG

    We have to work some fish eyes on the tailgate and hood. Still no idea how we got them on the second coat. But they are there and we will abrade the eyes with a dremel toolbit by hand and then spot fill. And then cut and buff. My sources say we can pull this off.

    Anyway, here is a shot of the tub, with the color matched smoothie hubcaps. Finn and I are very pleased with the look. There are a few runs on the tub, but no fish eyes and no orange peel. The cut and buff should be easy. We have been thinking bushwacker flares all along - and if I'm being truthful there was some things on the fender lips where we just said, "that's good enough it'll be under flares". But now that it is all painted the fender lips look good. Some picky car show sniffers may well look at a bit of wonkiness here and there and shake their head. But 99% of the people would never notice it. So, the smooth look does look cool and those flares are $600 shipped. That's a lot of beer...

    IMG_3132.JPG
    While that was going on, we worked on the radiator. We really have to shoe-horn it in there. We were worried about the mounting and the plumbing and fitting the radiator - and well, everything. But in the end it worked out fine. The plumbing is clean and the radiator fits. We did have to clearance the nose and the plastic grill, but everything fits like it should. We have been kicking ourselves for the rookie mistake of placing the engine too far forward. But the fact is with the 4.0 and the 5-speed and the adapters, etc were were going to end up either modifying the nose of the tunnel. And a tunnel mod would have goofed up the seat mounting.

    IMG_3135.JPG
    The fan extends over the radiator, and we will see how that goes. We could easily make a shroud or go with a smaller radiator. We will see.

    We have also been working on the interior. We have started putting the dash together and could be all done with that except we are waiting on the defroster duct hose.

    IMG_3134.JPG

    And then we mounted the seats:

    IMG_3136.JPG

    They will get some neoprene seat covers. We sill haven't decided what to do with the back seats.

    We are waiting on doo-dads: the duct hose, the steering wheel adapter, gotta get some more hose clamps, etc, etc. But it's getting close: we are starting to say driving "next month".

    Hope all you fathers had a good day yesterday! Bob & Finn
     
  13. MrKenmore

    MrKenmore Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Looks great!!!! Where are those seats from? Looks familiar but I can't place it.
     
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  14. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    Thanks Matt - the seats are from VW GTI. We scored them from a buddy for $50 each. We will put some neoprene seat covers on them. I've owned a string of GTIs and the seats are very comfortable for me. B
     
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  15. mongocanfly

    mongocanfly High Wheeler

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    That looks great Bob..!...
     
  16. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    That felt good:
    IMG_3140.JPG
     
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  17. mongocanfly

    mongocanfly High Wheeler

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    Snazzzzzy..!!
     
  18. Alex

    Alex Farmall Cub

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    Why were you thinking about putting flares on it?
    I'd leave it as is for now.
     
  19. 800bman

    800bman High Wheeler

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    Amazing what a good wet sanding cut and buff can do! Nice updates!
    :2guns::2guns:
     
  20. Belltownbikes

    Belltownbikes Farmall Cub

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    We didn't think that our fender lip repairs were going to look good enough. But now that there is paint on everything they look pretty good. B
     

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