Bad Vendor Experiences

Discussion in 'The Machine Shop' started by John Donnelly, Dec 14, 2009.


  1. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    I actually had the tracking number right here, every time we talked it seemed that it was somewhere else. I will not return your phone call as I believe this takes care of the 'call' back.

    Bummer that it didn't get there by the weekend though. The Scout is probably just waiting for it.
     
  2. John Donnelly

    John Donnelly Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Well, I just did another cleanup of crap here that I shouldn't have to do. The instructions here are clear, folks. Facts, names, and no bandwagoning, op-ed pieces, or opinions.

    RSW, you didn't report the facts as requested. Your post was deleted. To the person in question in that issue, your facts were noted via off-line discussion.

    Mr. Steelhead. Your credibility is in question. You appear out of nowhere, no posts, no history, NO FACTS, and attack Mr. Fleck of BCB. Your post has been removed, as well as Mr. Fleck's rather wordy retort.

    Why?

    No facts. no proof. No credibility.

    Have them, provide them, and be ready to defend yourself.

    This is the last straw for this program. If it fails again, it will be gone, and it will not be revisited.

    Clear?

    -John
     
  3. Tonebone

    Tonebone Farmall Cub

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    I never have liked this thread. If you have a bad experience with a vendor, the grape vine should be enough. I also feel like we are eating our own. Tony
     
  4. John Donnelly

    John Donnelly Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Tell that to your peers. They are the ones that wanted this labor intensive piece of crap.

    -John
     
  5. Bread

    Bread Binder Driver

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    There is also a good vendor thread where many vendors have been given praise for their outstanding service. There's an attempt here to support both ends of the spectrum. It is up to us to stack the chips one way or the other.

    These two threads combined are the online "grape vine." Without them, the only way to learn is to be burned firsthand. Good people continue to lose good money and bad vendors are allowed to continue these habits unchecked. This forum is to help fellow IH enthusiasts, period. It's was created, and still managed by the same enthusiasts. Although this system is not perfect, it is a method of accountability. A way for use to look out for our own. This is our attempt at a Better Business Bureau, which in itself is not perfect. E-bay labels their sellers in a similar fashion. A consumer must read complaints with discerning eye, as there are two sides to every story. No single complaint paints a complete picture, however a collection of complaints will begin to reveal some truth.

    I realize the limitations, but applaud the effort made here.
     
  6. Allan E

    Allan E Lives in an IH Dealership

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    I been everywhere, man
    I have to agree, the BBB is a joke, at least sometimes. All of my experiences with them have made me think of it as a clown act.

    Back to the thread, it's not hard to deal with businesses who treat you unfairly.
    1. You lay out the transaction details, including dates, names, and method of payment and delivery.
    2. You lay out the communication details, including dates and names.
    3. You lay out whether payment was received, and when.
    4. You lay out the manner in which you tried to resolve the issue, and with whom, including dates, names, times.
    5. You lay out the manner in which you requested your money back, and the deadline you requested.


    ***6. You give the information to the vendor.***

    Question: Wait a minute, we're on step 6 and haven't even posted here yet? :confused:

    Answer: Exactly. :oops: :nono:

    7. Only then, if you still have not received satisfaction, do you have a valid complaint that might be posted here. Only then, if the vendor disagrees with you, should the vendor need to mount a defense, agree that things should be resolved, or simply continue to flake out.

    This isn't all that tough. There are simple, straightforward ways to deal with these issues. If you don't follow them, you should be subject to ridicule :hammer: from your peers (which is the rest of us), because adults know how to handle business in an adult manner. If we act like children, adults will be forced to deal with us as such.
     
  7. orangewhip

    orangewhip Farmall Cub

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    When vendors start posting huge replies, some of which may be true or untrue (nobody can really know for sure except the parties involved), as the paying customer you feel obligated to reply again, and then it becomes a vicious cycle.

    I agree that the more a certain vendor does get called out, the more it becomes truthful. Same goes for the good vendor experiences, the more a customer praises them, the more it offsets the negative on them. I mean everybody has a bad day/week, and can be forgiven, but when certain vendors KEEP being called out, that is when people should start paying attention.

    It's funny, you don't hardly see nearly as many vendors replying when there is praise for them in the good vendors forum, but they write essays when they are being brought out on this thread.

    I think part of the problem, is not enough customers are posting in both the good and bad vendors threads... only then will the truth really come out.

    Ohhh, and I agree about the BBB, I took my complaint to them originally to get my situations straightened out, but when they received no reply, that is when I turned to the forum.
     
  8. John Donnelly

    John Donnelly Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    The thing I don't understand about the majority of the complainers is when they post a complaint and the vendor responds, they get offended, pull their post like taking their ball and going home after a bad day at the sandlot, and nothing gets resolved.

    You are slamming someones business. Sure, they may have done you wrong, but if the manner in which you feel wronged doesn't stand up to scrutiny, who is the real "bad" in this? Someone slams someone else's livelihood and they are supposed to stand idly by and let you? You can't complain, kids, and expect nobody to call you out on the schoolyard. If you can't back up your claims, who is really the fool?

    John Glancy has shown that many times a complaint isn't a complaint at all, but a lack of communication by one or the other, or many times BOTH parties.

    Orangewhip posted a very well thought out complaint against BCB, and when BCB retorted, he removed all of his information... not sure why to this day.. but it forced the removal of the entire section to make it fair.

    What we in the BP Admin team don't want or like is being a referee. This thread demands it, and frankly, we get tired of trying to figure out who is right in this boxing ring that has been created here.

    Jeff Bade and I both agree that this thread sucks up more of our time than any other. We both hate it. In turn, it makes us not like the people we serve very much because of all the wet-nursing we need to do for all the whining we get in the forums, via PM, and also email from all the "offended" parties.

    Well, guess what?

    Be offended. Nobody on this earth ever guaranteed anyone the right not to be offended, or for that matter, that anyone has to like or tolerate any of you.

    Follow our rules, and realize that when you embark on the path of war with someone, they aren't going to just let you shoot at them without shooting back.. what it comes down to is which one of you in that contest of arms has the better aim, and the better tactics. If you are going to complain, understand that you will more than likely reap what you sow, and we won't save you from yourselves.

    -John
     
  9. orangewhip

    orangewhip Farmall Cub

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    I pulled all my posts because it was all becoming a he said/she said situation.

    There were many items that were being excluded by the vendor ( I wont name them again) in their post, but because they put up a chronological order of what they thought happened, then I would have to go in between each and every entry in their long list and state what was left out or wrong. Not worth my time, nor anybody else's.

    I got what I wanted, my Scout back... and posting on here is what made it happen, so for me, it worked great. I had many issues with the vendor, a lot I just let go of....costing me money... all just to get my Scout back in my possession.

    So, why did I remove all my posts, well because with the way it was going, each reply from the vendor was getting longer and longer and more of them as well... others didn't need to be fronted with all that, especially when I got the Scout back.

    To this day, I will not ever contact or use that vendor again, even though I think he may be a nice guy, I just don't think he knows how to treat ( communicate) with customers, especially ones paying quite a bit of money. Sure did feel like I was his gravy train.
     
  10. John Donnelly

    John Donnelly Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    And if the vendor left it out, it was your duty to point it out let the words come out, and see where it ends up. Not fold your tent and then edit all your posts so there was nothing but the other vendors side of things. Makes it look like you "made a deal".

    It made things unfair, and no longer balanced. So, all of it went away, so who did your really help other than yourself? Did you help the community? Only those that managed to read what you said before you capitulated.

    So, in the end, what purpose did this serve other than being a billy club for you to use on someone else temporarily?

    Do you see what I am saying? You took the INTENT of this thread, and used it for your own ends, and nothing more. In the end, you didn't help the community at all. That is how I see it. Pretty sure I am not alone.

    This thread is to help the community. It is to help customers and vendors better their communication and hopefully help both sides learn how to better support one another.

    It isn't a baseball bat for you, or for that matter anyone else to swing.

    -John
     
  11. orangewhip

    orangewhip Farmall Cub

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    I agree and also disagree...

    I felt that if I didn't stop things right then and there, that this would have gone on forever....we've all seen the MASSIVE posts that this vendor replies with, my rebuttal replies would have been just as long, more likely longer... and then he would have replied again and so on and so on, and this would have been a complete waste of people's time (and space) reading the back and forth "arguing" with no way of proving either side was in the right or wrong.

    When I made my original posts, I did follow all the rules and put as much information in my post as I could remember at the time of writing... probably TOO much information. I was trying to follow the rules as best as I possibly could... there was nothing in the rules stating that I couldn't retract my original complaint.

    After your post in which you commented that I retracted my posts, I then realized that maybe I shouldn't have deleted all my posts, even though the rules never stated I couldn't. And I would have liked to explain why I did, and try to explain why I wasn't "making a deal" as you put it, but you, yourself specifically asked both myself and the vendor to not reply, try to contact you, or anything else in regards to that matter, so I figured I did enough damage by removing my posts and left it as is. It is only now, after the emotions and dust have settled (and other people's issues with the same vendor) that I decided to explain why.

    On a side note, again, in the last complaint against the same vendor, because the complaint came quite a while after the work was done and because the vendor wrote numerous and lengthy replies (with pictures), it seems like you had "sided" with the vendor...without even the chance for a rebuttal from the complainer.

    If this thread is supposed to help people who have issues with a certain vendor and to spread the word to others, what does it matter how long before the work was done? Also, what do a dozen pictures taken by the vendor showing the work being done have anything to do about the complaint he made, which was his vehicles were never the same after coming back from that vendor. You can put lipstick on a pig, take as many pictures as you want, but in the end, it is still a pig...

    As far as me using the threat as my own tool, yes I will admit to that... but at the same time, I am relatively new, this is my first Scout, and I used a vendor that I initially heard about from this forum, and I got screwed... how else would you expect somebody to be? I was seconds from selling the Scout and never having anything to do with them or this forum (or others) again, but I didn't because I love my little Scout and the actual members of this forum provide great information and help out us newbies as much as they can. Which I am 100% completely great-full for and I can only hope to learn enough about my little rig one day to return the favor to others. But that will probably take a while. ;)
     
  12. John Donnelly

    John Donnelly Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    You did follow the rules, and that is why I found it so disappointing when you edited all of your posts and removed the content. I agree that you could say that it would have turned into a long debate, but be assured that it would have hit a point where any further discussion would have either exposed a fool or revealed where the wrong really was, and no, there is nothing that says you can't retract your complaint. All words are the property of their original poster. That is in our terms of service.

    The last complaint against BCB was nothing short of "he done me wrong and I want some street justice". It explained nothing. What was problematic was this poster had contacted one of our team members before posting, was given some clear expectations for posting and at the same time spent more time telling our team member about his troubles than he did when he posted. If he had taken the time to post clear issues as you did, any wordy retort or manifesto from the injured party would have looked like a mea culpa as has happened before.


    No truer words were ever spoken about the pig part. And the time frame over work being done has nothing to do with it. Unless of course it was delivered in good condition and then the owner bashed the crap out of it and then tried to blame the vendor for his banged up machine.

    I am glad you like your IH. I am glad you have found good help here. I am sorry that you were disappointed in the performance of a vendor you wanted to trust that in the end didn't meet your expectations. That you tried to warn others is commendable. That you bailed out because of a suspected fear of it turning into a furball is understandable, but you should have trusted the team of people here to not only be supportive, but also to understand that while we don't take sides, we DO want the IH community of vendors and customers to find a certain amount of education about how to treat one another better all the time. The world is a fast-paced place anymore. We see this site as a way for everyone to stay current on trends, ideas, and better ways of doing things.

    I know many IH vendors. Most of them are some of the most rabid, dyed-in-the-wool IH enthusiasts you will ever meet. They are great folks. I know many of the posters here either personally or via this internet connection. Many of them are some of the most rabid, dyed-in-the-wool IH enthusiasts you will ever meet, and they are great folks.

    In the end, both groups have the same goal. Keep IH going. Some of you spend money. Some of you make money. Some of you get a great deal, some of you don't. The road runs in both directions.

    This thread was created by the users of this site. But at the same time, we gotta have some decorum and some framework to operate from. If one side complains but gives no facts... it isn't credible. If someone complains and the vendor responds and suddenly the complaint just isn't as important and the complainer removes their information or vice-versa, then it becomes one-sided, and unfair... and it gets put someplace where only the people who run this place can see it.

    I don't like this thread. I don't like having to sit in the middle of this stuff. The other admins here don't want to sit here either. But, in the end, the peers of this society wanted this, so here it is.

    How much benefit it is comes from all of you. Not from us. All we have done is make a simple request about format and fairness.

    -John
     
  13. orangewhip

    orangewhip Farmall Cub

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    Sounds good, and fair. My apologies for removing my posts, I honestly didn't think they would be missed.

    Cheers!
     

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