Another Champagne

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Randall Barringer, Jun 18, 2017.


  1. oneof3k

    oneof3k Binder Driver

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    It appears that items such as sun visors, for the CS and RCS scouts anyways, were part of the CS package and not listed individually? Sounds like IH built their Scouts with some variability especially with regards to the small stuff? I suspect that this project will be somewhere between challenging and interesting if not a bit puzzling to make it period correct/original.
     
  2. Randall Barringer

    Randall Barringer Y-Block King

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    It'll either have holes for mounting screws or not, just make it the way it was if you're going for full resto.

    Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
     
  3. oneof3k

    oneof3k Binder Driver

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    That's the plan and heavily rely on said CS brochure :innocent:.
     
  4. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    Could be a very interesting footnote. Actually, we'd just do a little more focused research in the LST files around the serial number of this one and look more closely. Having only a few hundred LSTs and a few days of production to look at vs 20,000 or so makes it a lot easier to focus in... especially if there are more without Doll-Up stamps. Then we'd update the production dates and VINs based on the new information in the next printing of the book.

    First off, the records that could nail all of this down are either stashed away somewhere inaccessible or gone altogether. Finding only a few places where the numbers of the specials built was actually recorded was very frustrating. The CS is much less well-documented in the available records than the RCS as well. In many cases, the way the starting and ending serial numbers for the Scouts in the book were obtained by spending hours and hours, days and weeks, scrolling thru the LST files on the WHS fiche readers. A true test of sanity and the Mark 1 eyeball. We know we missed some in all the models, which is why this flow of info is so useful.

    In the product planning docs we looked at, it was stated that CS production would start immediately after RCS production ended. They were very much the same as far as the line was concerned, so it was just a matter of incorporating the new colors into the build. The last RCS build was listed at November 2 and this one is November 5, so that all tracks. I suspected there might be some RCS/CS overlap on the line, i.e. the first CS coming before the last RCS was built, but we didn't find it.

    Because there wasn't anything special about the CS build vs what they had already been doing with the RCS, there wasn't much, if any, "tuning" needed for the line. This LST proves it, being virtually a clone of an RCS sheet but for the color and the model prefix. This LST bears no marks of it being a line test rig, though the handwritten LSN adds a bit of uncertainty to that statement. That often indicates an unusual LST in some way.... but this one is pretty ordinary overall. Another minor mystery.

    The Doll-Up stamp isn't always present, even on RCS and others. Mainly, it's the interior Custom trim codes (16665, 16666, or 16667 for a cab top CS... yes there are some), plus the other parts and the colors. As I said, the RCS was a "true" special model made to celebrate the 100,000th Scout. The CS was less a "special" and more the inauguration of the high-end trim "Doll-Up" Scouts into volume production and there may well have been more than 3000 built. It would take a week of 10 hour days to find and accurately count each and every one in the 20,000+ Scout 80s built for '65.

    Bottom line, I am very happy to see this! The CS are one of the most informationally elusive of the Scout specials.

    One thing I am looking for is this: In a few CS images, notably the one in the book, there is a "Custom" badge on the door as with the RCS. Those Scout are probably early or pre-production CS Scouts, so you can't apply production trim standards to them. I have not seen this badge on any surviving CS, however Maybe you guys can can keep your eyes open for the badges or the witness marks that they might have been there. Ed's is early enough that with would be a prime candidate for scrutiny.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  5. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    Late Breaking News:

    Ran across another Champagne LST for FC108375 with an LSN of 7031 (also handwritten), only 50 units on from Ed's and rolled the next day, November 6. No Doll-up notation. It was earmarked for Boise, Idaho and has the same "PA2436" (I think, it's hard to read on both) notation on the bottom as Ed's. One notable difference: it's Apache Gold rather than Champagne Mist. Oddly the one for sea level in Lubbock, Ed's, has the 4.88 gears and the one for Boise has 4.27s. Usually the high altitude locations got the lower cogs.

    Anyway, given the similarities, I have a theory they were the first build of CS to get them out to the dealers. They often would build up a bunch all once to get them out to dealer showrooms ASAP. I wish both copies were clearer to be able to read the number on bottom and the handwritten stuff on top. Ed, is yours the PDF you got from WHS or did you get a printout and scan it in? If the former, this is about as good as it gets. If the latter, I will send off for a PDF.
     
  6. oneof3k

    oneof3k Binder Driver

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    Holy Crap! I must have read through the CS portion of your book nearly as many times as you and never noticed the "custom" badge on the door. Being an ex scientist (hydrogeolgist) I would typically attack a new project with a detailed literature review. But during this project, I missed that detail. I also looked at the CS brochure (original not a repro) and may see the same badge below Carol Merrels's arm on one of the photos. When I get the older CS home, I'll take a detailed look for the custom badge, but I do not hold out much hope as 1) the body is mostly in primer and 2) I looked through the bucket of miscellaneous chrome items (e.g., door and window handles, Scout and All-wheel drive badges, etc.) and did not notice any custom badges. I did see some Ford stuff though if that helps :1eye:. I'll also talk to the original owner of my younger CS to see if he has any recollection of said badge, clearly not present in the last 27 years though.

    For the record, I ordered and received the LST from the WHS. I put in an email last night to see if they could get me a better copy, but as you said, that is not likely to happen. However, my better half, in an unexpected display of Scout warming up, played with the copies I received from the WHS and managed to create a somewhat more readable copy :tt1:.

    Jim, thx for the detailed information and reply! The amount of time you put into your responses multiplied by the many hundreds if not thousands of Scouts is truly remarkable! You are such a great asset!!!!!!!!!

    Ed.
    LST CS2pg1.jpg LST CS2pg2.jpg

    PS, here is a bit more trivia that perhaps you may shed some light on. On my newer CS, the one in my possession for 27 years, it has the Moonstone blue paint and the white travel top. However, I've noticed as of late that beneath the white paint is a tan-colored paint that I don't think is a primer. Interestingly, it appears to be the same color as in the photos in the brochure and perhaps your book. I talked to the original owner who did not paint the topper. Is it possible that the factory painted some tops the tan color and then changed their minds and went with white? Or perhaps I'm getting color blind!
    topper_paint.JPG
     
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  7. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    Thanks. I try to do detail when I have it and detail in usually gets me detail back. My resources are readily at hand and well organized (for the most part) so I can whip these out fairly quickly.

    I have seen the Custom badge in a couple of other period images (might be the same rig in the book pic or not, can't tell). I suspect it was something they toyed with for the CS after using it on the RCS but dropped. If it saved them a shekel, they were all over it. That was the IH way. When you look at the doors, if you can, look on the inside to see if the mounting holes are there for the badges. I think it unlikely any production units had them, but it would be interesting to find a few that escaped with them installed. There was a dearth of good period CS images and the one in the book was the only one worth trying to reproduce. There is one grainy B&W image showing three CS at the airport to pick up some bigwigs and the outer unit clearly has the badge. It's an undated image. Clearly, it wasn't part of the standard and customary package. I am a little obsessed with it... as I am with the few Terra and Travelers that made it into private hand with smooth finish tops.

    As to the top color, the most likely answer is that they had a top that was previously painted one color and they repainted it white. From the image, that color does not look like Champagne Mist but it's really hard to tell. To my knowledge, they did not offer a standard CS with a body color top, but you could pay extra to have it painted body color.

    They have a pretty good fiche scanner at WHS and it's set to max res when they do it and there is even a sharpen setting. Typically they do all that but given the main guy there is having a health issue at the moment, the fill-ins may not be doing it the same way. Typically, it's as good as it can be when they send it. I took your copy and ran it thru Photoshop but it can only do so much. I have spent many hours cursing the guy that shot some of the fiche images. If I knew where he was buried, I'd be tempted to use his grave as a urinal! ( : < ) Some are a clear as can be. Others are so woefully bad you can barely read anything without needing an eyeball transplant later.
     
  8. oneof3k

    oneof3k Binder Driver

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    As promised, I searched for the "Custom" emblems on my two CS's. The first pic shows what I found (some of us never do grow up!).

    jokester.JPG

    I just happened to be removing the door panels on the youngster (FC114985) about the time you inquired a few weeks ago and I took a peek inside the doors but saw no evidence of said emblem. Previous owner questioned my sanity when I inquired about the emblems. The new older CS I just hauled home this week (FC108346) came with the metal door covers removed and it also did not have any indications of a Custom emblem ever being present. Might have to bury this obsession!
    IMG_1988.JPG
     
  9. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    Appreciate you looking. It was a forlorn hope, as I said, but given the circumstances, worth checking.
     
  10. MattKelley

    MattKelley Farmall Cub

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    I have one.
     
  11. Randall Barringer

    Randall Barringer Y-Block King

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    Pics??

    Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
     
  12. MattKelley

    MattKelley Farmall Cub

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  13. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    I don't remember yours being complete? Anyway, I was looking for one to use as a "model" to present as a proper, correct and nice CS.
     
  14. MattKelley

    MattKelley Farmall Cub

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    I think it is fairly complete...I do have a dash cover, stock rims, hub caps and most of the turbo heat shield. It is all numbers matching and original from what I can tell...
     
  15. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    I see! Per our recent discussion, I don't suppose yours has any evidence of the "Custom" badges on the doors?
     
  16. MattKelley

    MattKelley Farmall Cub

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    There is no evidence of any door badges...
     
  17. Mark Pietz

    Mark Pietz High Wheeler

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    Recently on a FB forum I picked up some parts from a Model 80. In the pics posted the engine was lying on its side in the bed, and the tappet cover had a fitting on it that looked suspiciously like the drain for the 152T. Engine otherwise stripped. So I bought the cover and distributor for grins, which turns out the be the special 152T distributor with the pressure retard can. It's a Holley w/straight points (I had never seen one of those before). So this Model 80, soon to go to the crusher, was, in fact, a turbo model and may have been a Champagne. The VIN is FC114153A, FWIW. It states "111.3 hp". (The .3 is a nice touch)
     
  18. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    Mid January '65 build. Did you happen to note color or any features that could be attributed to a CS? In any case, at least some part of it went on to recycle some rare turbo parts.
     
  19. Mark Pietz

    Mark Pietz High Wheeler

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    At this time there is virtually nothing to go on. The dash appears to have been repainted, but anything that would have supplied clues is long gone. But definitely a 152T. The heater core has the outboard outlets, and there are holes where the BHC shield was mounted. In the top pic you can see the turbo drain fitting in the tappet cover. What the engine looks like is that they turbo had been removed and a regular exhaust manifold installed and the vacuum fittings/PVC, jacked around, but they kept the distributor (no vacuum advance with this one!). This is the inevitable end of Scouts when they are no longer loved. scout scrap 2.jpg scout scrap 1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  20. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    Difficult to tell the actual color but it looks like one of the golds. Thanks for posting!
     

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