Acid dip/ Ecoating?

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by IH64Scout, Nov 10, 2011.


  1. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    well i want my travelette RUST FREE and RUST PROOF. the only way i can see this to to be acid dipped to get the seams, then ecoated in primer. when you google it there's mixed reviews of different places east of the mississippi. plus the cost.... well i trust my binder buddies, soooo experiences? suggestions? anyone? :cornfused:

    THANKS!
    -Jon
     
  2. DannyD

    DannyD Farmall Cub

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    I've had fantasies about a "Flame-Spray" process I saw when I worked at Machinists's Inc. here in the PNW. The process uses a plasma arc to deposit a molten zinc material very similar to galvanizing onto the steel parts needing protection. Here's a link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_spraying

    I saw the guys applying it to welded steel bridge beams and parts headed for Alaska. They said it would be rust-proof for something like 30 years out in the salt water spray.

    After seeing that, I started getting ideas that my Travelall could be sprayed with the same stuff.... Perhaps, just perhaps, I could finally get ahead of the cancer.

    Good luck, I'd like to hear what you come up with.
     
  3. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    that won't coat behind 2 panels though where dipping can get to. my friend had a fleetstar cab galvanize dipped, good for 100 years, but it warped the roof a little and the rear of the cab. it's a dump truck so that's no big deal there.

    -Jon
     
  4. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Farmall Cub

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    why not just use a polyurethane coating to seal out any future water to cause rust?
    Dry rust which cant get wet further wont rust anymore.
    Use PL premium polyurethane construction adhesive.
    Clean the seam, let it dry, smear in the PL. PL reacts with moisture and is 100% waterproof.
     
  5. Jeff Jamison

    Jeff Jamison Lives in an IH Dealership

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    You cant seal everything on a travelette cab,I tried on my last one and filled every void I could with rust proffing,it lasted 10 years till it rusted again.This was a daily driver in Pa in he salt.I would dip if you can aford it,and I would open a few places up first so it can get in,like rockers,cab corners,below the windsheild.
    Jeff
     
  6. grendel_cave

    grendel_cave Farmall Cub

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    I don't know if this will help, but here is the "Danner Scout" when it went to Metal Works for a body dip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3INysH5j-pk
    I don't know where Metal Works is, but you could probably google it and find out. You might even be able to get some testimonials from people who have had their vehicles body dipped there. Anyone know how the "Danner Scout" is holding up?
     
  7. Dennis Bernth

    Dennis Bernth Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think you have the right idea Jon, research wherever you plan to take it really well, and talk to some customers from a few years ago and look at the work. People that had their vehicles dipped and coated last week, or last year, are probably still happy- you want to talk to the guys that had it done five or ten years ago to see how it's held up and whether any rust appeared. From what I've read about it, the issue is that if the body isn't neutralized properly after it's dipped, it will rust from the residual acid left in the seams. Some places try to short cut and dip, dry, then coat figuring the coating will seal the acid off, no water can get to it, thus no rust. Sounds good, but if they say that's what they do, I'd find someplace else, if it was mine I'd want it dipped in something to neutralize the acid before it was coated.

    Another thing to remember is that this process is big with street rodders and guys building muscle machines from the 60's. Lots of those don't get used in the salt environment like you're going to do, so just because their vehicle hasn't rusted might not mean much, it may sit in a garage all winter. Try to find people that you can talk to that have actually driven the vehicle in the winter on salty roads and had good luck. I'd pick up a copy of Hemmings, there are usually ads for various places in there that you might not find other wise. And be sitting down when you get a price, I priced having a Traveler tub and windshield frame done a few years ago.......shazam!
     
  8. Doc Stewart

    Doc Stewart Content Team Staff Member Moderator

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    If you choose to use the polyurethane coating, use Os-Pho from Ace hardware on any rusty spots or seams first. Seals the rust by converting it and is cheap and effective.
     
  9. Robert JetFxr

    Robert JetFxr High Wheeler

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    There will always be a point where money is the deciding factor in a build, but if you look at Tony's Scout, we are going as far as piratical to insure the Scout will be around for a long time. Look at the thread and follow along, I would appreciate your input there. I just had Rob spray the bottom of the tub with epoxy primer, I have it stripped and all media blasted to bare steel inside and out. We will also be spraying the complete inside of the tub with bedliner after the paint is done, I will be spraying the underside with rust proofing. This adds a lot of expense to a frame off rebuild but Tony is looking to preserve the Scout as long as possible. Easiest think would be to move out west where the truck last much longer....LOL
     
  10. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Ok, I read a few people say that one place lifted the car off with a fork lift and buckled the roof.....:censored: I read where others had acid leftover and it rusted through in a few years. I want this truck forever, I flew hours to get it and drove it clear across the country....not letting the rust monster sink its evil fangs into this one!! Even after its coated it will never see road salt! I'll do some more research. Thanks guys!

    -Jon:beer:
     
  11. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Farmall Cub

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    I have actually repaired sheet metal using PL premium poly construction adhesive as an adhesive for metal. PL swells up as it cures and cures with moisture from the air. To get it to cure in thick layers, add moisture bulking using sawdust or really any fiber. If you had a strong fiber, this stuff would be VERY strong. It re-coats back on itself with ease. Takes a day to fully cure. I have even used a paint brush to put it on. It will bubble up. the bubbles will feel soft till they cure. The stuff stays flexible, metal flexing wont crack it.

    If you mix it with sawdust, the stuff will cure in a few hours. Hotter and more humid means faster cure.

    If you want, mix a glob with some sawdust about 50-50 or less, then press it into cracks or something you want fill. Take a sheet of HDPE like a cereal bag, press it over the patch. As it reaches a halfway cure, press out the bubbles. It will cure and the bag will come clean away and you will have a smooth surface you can sand and even paint. For sanding it takes a coarse grit.
    I have done this to repair rusted seams. the stuff if thick enough will restore some strength. I rebuilt rocket panels on a Ford Contour with this and it is sealed up all around and dry, no water gets in. Course cant jack it there anymore. But If you make it thick, it gets rigid and strong enough for a decent cheap fix.

    What I did for that was take some aluminum sheet made for roof sealing, Cut and bent it into the approximate shape.Riveted the aluminum to the remaining car metal. Filled it with the sawdust PL mix, filling and troweling it into all the cracks. Smoothed, let it cure. Refill several times, troweling it into all the grooves and cracks. Rough sanded it smooth and painted with Rustoleum spray can.
    Turned out very good. Think of this like working with playdough which hardens into a hard rubber like substance to whatever form you made.

    As it sets it stiffens.
    Once it gets to certain cure point, you cant move it around or you will fracture the bonds it is forming.

    You can tell it reaches this point when you move it forms granules and is crumbly. I have actually mixed in pure PL to reuse a partially cured mixture.
    This will swell up a lot especially with sawdust in the mix. That is why I suggest using a plastic bag to press it down and get rid of some of the air bubbles.
    Since the stuff is 100% waterproof it is a very goodsealer.

    Alcohol is a good cleanup solvent, but dont dilute with alcohol as it turns PL into sludge.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  12. grendel_cave

    grendel_cave Farmall Cub

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    here is the website for metalworks: http://www.metaldipping.com/pricing-package.php
    they are the company that body dipped the "Danner Scout." I think they're a-ways-away from you in Eugene, Oregon, but their pricing may give you an idea of what this type of works costs. For a Ford Bronco: fenders, top, hood, doors, tub, windshield, etc is $1900 + a .03% environmental fee. I'm guessing your rig might be a little more than $1900.
     
  13. robgimmel

    robgimmel Binder Driver

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    I hot tanked my Scout when I built it and am happy. However, I had access to the tank (it's in the machine shop I used to work at). The thing you have to be careful with on caustic soda is to make sure it is well rinsed. By that I mean rinse it two or three times with a pressure washer and then two or three times more. If any caustic is left in the metal it draws moisture and will eventually rot out the stee. As far as metal spray is concerned, we did that also and it works great, the thing you need to do with metal spray though is to seal it after spraying. There are two types of sealer, one is a wax that is applied immediately after spraying while the work is still hot and the other is a phenolic that is brushed on. Either works well. Metal spray by it's nature is porus and moisture will go through it and rust the base metal and then break the bond of the spray. Trust me, it will happen if not sealed. Both processes work well, just make sure they are done right.
     
  14. Dennis Bernth

    Dennis Bernth Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Another option, especially since you don't plan to run the truck on road salt, is something like 'Rust Check'. It's basically a high tech version of the oil spray that people have been doing to rust proof their vehicles for years. They're based out of Canada, and dealers in the US are kind of hard to find, but everything I've read is that the stuff works awesome, even for people driving on salty roads or that live near the coast. The downside is that it's an 'every year' operation, although if you didn't run in salt you could probably do it every other year. Price is under $200, and the follow up might be cheaper since the holes will already be there for them to respray. I talked with the Rust Check guy in my area a few years ago about doing my Scout II; he said he had just gotten rid of an early 70's IH four wheel drive pickup that he used to plow his business. He had gotten it new, and had Rust Checked it every year. He said 'how many solid IH pickups have you seen around here?' and I said 'none, unless they come from out West'. He said 'mine was solid, no rust holes, no body work ever'. He said the only reason he got rid of it was that he picked up a late 80's Blazer that was easier to maneuver where he had to plow. I checked it out too, it was the old body style full size K Blazer, and it was clean- he also had Rust Checked it from new, and it had original paint. I know how bad that body style rusted, and no sign of that on the Blazer. He seemed like a good guy to work with, he said they had charts on where to spray even for the old trucks like IH's, but he'd work with me and any extra spots I wanted sprayed he'd do. I didn't do it just because I don't drive the truck in winter, but I'm seriously thinking about having my Dodge pickup done. It's a 91 club cab long bed, 80,000 original miles, and no rust since it was always parked in winter. I'd like to keep it nice, and for under $200 a year, you can't do body work for that.
     
  15. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    I like that idea too, even after its coated if like the frame/underside waxed and oiled, probably inside the panels too.when I say last truck I will ever own, I mean last truck I will ever own....:tt2: I will check that site grendel thanks!

    -Jon
     
  16. BioTex

    BioTex High Wheeler

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    I don't have any experience with stopping rust, since i'm in the SW. But what about a sacrificial annode like a bar of zinc bolted to the frame?

    I'm sure someone has tried it. Does it do any good at all?
     
  17. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Farmall Cub

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    only works in salt water on boats or where metal is under saltwater.

    fresh water would be a magnesium anode. Which I have my doubts about how much an improvement for a car. Simply do a test, buy a magnesium anode, bolt to mild steel, put in water see what happens. Also the radius of protection may be only a few feet. Isolated parts totally no protection. Magnesium is much more reactive than zinc, so that is what you would need.

    http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/galvanic/default.asp
     
  18. Dennis Bernth

    Dennis Bernth Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    They sell 'electronic anodes' that are supposed to stop rust, but the consensus of real testing is that they don't work on cars. They work on boats as sdowney says, but vehicles are a different ball game. About the only way to stop rust is to keep moisture away from the metal, either with paint or other coatings, wax or oil, or both.
     
  19. BennettMoe

    BennettMoe Farmall Cub

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    I knew a guy in VA who had his D series done. Apparently they didn't rinse and/or coat it as well as they said after it was dipped. Had the truck finished and beautiful and within MONTHS, it was rusting through the tops of the bed rails. Totally ruined the truck. :censored:
     
  20. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    that's what i want to steer clear of! :censored:
     

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