'73 Scout II, 345, 4 Speed/Granny Low, Factory A/C. Many Questions- Need Feedback

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by TorqueMonster1, May 17, 2018.


  1. TorqueMonster1

    TorqueMonster1 Farmall Cub

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    Thanks for looking at my post AND thanks ahead of time for taking the time to address my questions. I just went back through my file folder on my Scout and saw where I bought it in July 4th 2000. It was parked outside for only the first few months I had it. Since then it has been garaged, totally out of the weather, for over 17 years. I cant remember when I first became a "Scout" fan but it was way before the mid 90's when I was a broke college kid. I bought this Scout a few years after graduating. I put a couple hundred miles on it when I first got it. No problems that I recall other than it running hot one day in heavy interstate traffic. Unfortunately I set it aside for many years. Jobs, girlfriends, life, wife, kids, responsibility etc came before getting to the Scout. My wife & I are about to be empty nesters. All 3 kids Have or are about to have bought their first home and getting married. SO, Its time I start making some plans for the Scout. It hasn't been turned over in at least 12 years. Some of my questions are; 1.What do you all recommend I do before starting it for the first time? 2. How do you feel about an overhaul as opposed to a full rebuild? 3. Your opinion about swapping out front shackles for reverse shackles? . 4. What make/ model of tilt steering column will be the easiest to swap out? 5. It has and a 2 barrel carb & manifold now. Is there any reason I should consider swapping to a 4 barrel carb & manifold? MPG, Power, Torque, Reliability, Cost, Convenience, ETC?? 6. My Scout has A/C. I believe it to be factory air. Will it be difficult/impossible to get it going again? I want to be able to enjoy this Scout. I will not be going off road. I don't need to be able to run down the interstate at 85 mph in the fast lane. I think (and could be very wrong), that my Scout might be "special" or "unique". I have a copy of the original line order slip that told the assembly guys what it was to get. Depending on whether its special or not may help decide what I do or don't do to it. I want a cool, DEPENDABLE, RELIABLE older Scout to enjoy. I REALIZE I HAVE ASKED A LOT OF QUESTIONS IN ONE POST, SO I MAY NEED TO CREATE OTHER THREADS TO PROPERLY COVER ALL OF YOUR INPUT. Thank You!! Mark
     
  2. Mark Aycock

    Mark Aycock High Wheeler

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    Three words: Hamilton Fuel Injection.
     
  3. MrKenmore

    MrKenmore High Wheeler

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    Welcome! It would be helpful if you added a signature through your User CP and listed the specs of your Scout. Year, engine, transmission, etc. That helps when other folks on BP are reading posts and trying to answer questions. I can take a swing at a few of your questions.....
    1. How long has it not been started at all? Do a search here using the terms "preoil". Depending on how long it sat you may want to considering doing this procedure.
    2. I assume your talking about the engine here........I'd do a compression test on the cylinders and see where you're at. You can always do a nice fresh on the gaskets, belts, etc. which may get you where you want to be.
    3 & 4. Sorry, not my expertise.
    5. Need to know your engine size. Most people here do fine with the 2 bbl and it appears going to a 4 bbl causes more problems than it solves. Plus you need to source a 4 bbl manifold. Research Hamilton Fuel Injection if you are considering a fuel delivery upgrade.
    6. A/C in a Scout? What's that? Hahahahaha! No A/C here.

    Other items worth checking out due to its dormant status is the brakes. Give them a very good once over.
     
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  4. MrKenmore

    MrKenmore High Wheeler

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    Hey! No fair. I was typing and you beat me to it!
     
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  5. Fever

    Fever Farmall Cub

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    The below are simply my opinions
    1. If it hasn't been turned over in 12 years, definitely do the pre oil procedure.
    2. Your decision to rebuild will have to be based on the condition of the engine. Check your compression and if it's good and the engine runs good, no metal in the oil pan, no bad leaks, good oil pressure etc. I'd do a good tune up, belts, hoses, fluids and drive it.
    4. If you can find one, some later scouts came with a tilt column. I don't know but I would thing that would be easiest.
    5. If it's a factory carb for a 73 345 I'm guessing it's a Holley 2210. If you don't need to pass emisisons, dump it and get a holley 2300 or EFI. The factory carbs from 73 "work" but are temperamental early 70's emissions choked junk.
    6. All of the major parts for the AC are available. Some guys prefer to go to a sanden vs the factory york style compressor, both are fine. The factory systems were made for R12 which is next to impossible to find nowadays. They can be retrofitted to work with R134 but must be done correctly.
    Have fun with your scout! They can get addicting fast!
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  6. sabercat

    sabercat Farmall Cub

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    if you think its "special" or "unique" post your LST and someone here will tell you if it is
     
  7. scoutboy74

    scoutboy74 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Yeah, that's a heck of a lot of ground to cover in one thread. If any old fuel was left in the system, you'll not want to burn it through or add fresh fuel to the old. You will want to thoroughly purge the old varnish from the entirety of the fuel system first.
     
  8. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Two words. ENTER key. Once in a while. LOL Kidding. Lots of good questions buried in that first post. FYI, it's easy to edit your posts here after posting. But welcome to the forum!

    First off, it's a '73 so will likely have the original front drum brakes. Even at their best, the performance will be dismal, sometimes even scary, by modern standards. So unless a previous owner has already upgraded them via a disc brake kit, you may want to think about that. Either that or swap in a later-Scout Dana 44 front axle, which came with disc brakes. For this you will want to change the other brake hardware like the MC, dual diaphragm vac booster, etc. All the parts aren't too hard to find though.

    OTOH, if your LST says it came with a T18-wide, then you really do have a rare bird there.

    I would skip the reverse-shackle idea. It's a lot of work involved and it'll raise up the front vehicle slightly. Unless you want to start thinking about "lifts" and all that, put the idea away. I'd say it requires a different front driveshaft as well, but since you won't be taking it off pavement you will not be using 4WD anyway, so you can skip the front-DS change. You would just leave it off the vehicle. If you want a better ride it's easier to do this with upgraded and properly valved shocks. They cost a lot of money I'll admit, but from an engineering point of view, they are minimally invasive.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  9. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    To add, I'm not sure that any of the early Scout IIs came with granny-gear transmissions. I believe all those first SII 4spds were BW T18s that were the standard close-ratio type. So if it's really got a 6.2:1 first gear, your Scout either has a swapped-in T18 wide from that time, or a swapped-in later T19-wide (which came in many of the later SIIs). And therefore, who knows what other interesting mods have been done.

    As said, post up a clear pic of your LST. And also lots of pics of the Scout, and you'll get a lot of help here on the forum. I understand that the Scout might be sitting in a garage. Hopefully not a tight and dark one. So pics of the right and left sides of the engine bay would be great. Air cleaner off if possible. And a shot from underneath the front end, so we can see your suspension and front axle. Full profile shots of the whole vehicle would be helpful too. We can tell you if it's lifted, has oversized tires, etc.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  10. tahoedonner

    tahoedonner Farmall Cub

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    My 72 was all original and had a granny low 4 spd.
     
  11. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    Officially only the T44 (4x4) or T45 (4x4) close ratio boxes were available in the these '72-73 era Scouts. Not totally beyond possibility that a wide ratio could have been installed but it's highly unlikely. Really love to find the oddball stuff and the LST will answer the question one way or another.

    Ditto, Torquemonster 1: If you have the LST, post it and I can help you interpret it. The service fiche goes back to '73, so I could look yours up right now and get the bare bone with just the VIN.
     
  12. TorqueMonster1

    TorqueMonster1 Farmall Cub

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    First let me apologize for putting so many different items into one thread. I am going to create a few new threads based on some of my questions at the start of this thread. I was up late and wanting to get a post on this forum but should have thought it thru a little more. None the less I got some great feedback. I am also going to create a number of new threads to help others in the future. I expect to get a tremendous amount of info and it may help others on down the line. I want it to be easily found. I am not sure what LST stands for in the IH community but I'm thinking its similar to what I would call a "Line Build Form". The info/sheet that told line workers how each vehicle was to be built. I have attached a copy of mine, at least I tried to. Please look for my other post and help me out there also. Thanks Again Everyone! Mark
     

    Attached Files:

  13. scoutboy74

    scoutboy74 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    LST = Line Setting Ticket. Your understanding of what it is is spot on. For the transmission it says "#18 Warner Gear 4spd 1.41 3D"...whatever that equates to.
     
  14. Mustang

    Mustang Farmall Cub

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    Scoutboy already said it- but I will say it again. Drop the gas tank and clean it and flush fuel system!!! I let old blue sit up for four or five years. Went out and put a battery in, aired up the tires, poured 5 gallons of gas in and fired it up and away we went! Was driving around and everything was running and working fine, several miles later he started running rougher and rougher. Finally limped back home and after a while found the problem. Seven seized exhaust valves and bent push rods. Bad gas is Really Bad!!! After that I would recommend changing all fluids and filters,repacking front bearings and a few shots of grease everywhere. If the engine oil looks ok the i like to drive about 15-20 miles before I change it. Other than that you will probably need to rebuild the carb and clean the points.
     
  15. 1975IH200

    1975IH200 High Wheeler

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    Transmission Code 13045 is the Borg Warner T18C 4x4, Scout II. (IH T-45).
    The "1.41 3rd" refers the the 3rd gear ratio, which equates to the transmission being the "close" ratio 4-speed.
    This close ratio transmission has a first gear ratio of 4.02 to 1.
    The "Wide" ratio transmission has a first gear ratio of 6.32 to 1. The notation on the LST would be "1.68 3rd" to denote that this was the wide ratio 4-speed transmission.
    This is all from the BP IH Knowledge Base (KB), page 2, "Interpreting Lineset Component Codes".
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  16. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    1975... above has it exactly right on the trans. It was a $102 options in '73.

    Otherwise, you have a very high end Scout! Flame Red with the Deluxe exterior , Custom Interior and A/C. Sliding rear windows and AM/FM radio. High Zoot!

    Nothing jumped out a particularly unusual. Well, one thing. "12811 Heavy Duty Extra Element" is one I don't recall seeing all that often. That is a heavy duty air filter with an extra wrap for dusty conditions. A $4 option over the standard element. I'm sure that element is long gone. It just jumped out at me as unusual.

    Did this LST come in the form of a microfilm type item?

    Finally, if you order a Line Setting Ticket (LST) from the Wisconsin Historical Society <askmccormick@wisconsinhistory.org> or your favorite Scout Light Line Dealer, you will get more context. For one thing you get the build dates and can see if there are any handwritten notations that add layers of "intrigue" or interest. You will see the initials of the guys that built your Scout back in the day. There is a fee of around $20 but no matter what, your money goes to support the WHS, which is a non-profit, and helps them maintain a GREAT archive.
     
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  17. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    And let's not forget the chromed wheel covers. :) I wonder if those are still in place.

    Seeing that "1.41 3RD" was the give-away for me as well. From messing with my own T19s, I know that to be third gear on the T19A, the CR version, which is what came with my Scout. The WR version (my current transmission) has a 1.6x third gear.

    So.... TorqueMonster1.... can I call you TM1?.... since we've established that if you do in fact have a wide ratio, we know it was swapped in from something else. Next thing would be to determine what kind of transmission you actually have. I've read that BW made the T18-wide for Jeep and Ford, but I don't know if there was one that fit an IH driveline. Some of these other guys will have that info though. An easy way to tell if you have a T19 is by the shift pattern. It would be on the shift knob unless you have a custom one. But you can still check the pattern with engine off; see which way the shifter wants to move. The T19's Reverse is toward the right and back. A T18's is toward the left and forward, as I recall. This "test" will be a positive ID of a T19 at any rate.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  18. tahoedonner

    tahoedonner Farmall Cub

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    I'm still in search of this truck as it was my first car ever. I only remember the license plate number. I trust the experts like yourself about facts like these so it's possible it was swapped in. I just assumed it was all stock. The truck was built in mid '71 if I remember correctly.
     
  19. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    LOL. I forgot to say what the distinctions are between the two types of BWs. You would want it to be a T19 because they're a little easier to use. All forward gears are syncro'd, whereas the T18 has a non-syncro'd and straight-cut first gear, which means double-clutching and so forth when downshifting to first gear. It feels more like you're driving a piece of industrial machinery than a standard vehicle. The T19 feels more "modern" and is generally easier to operate.

    The other thing I was meaning to say, though it's not particularly helpful I guess, is that you probably don't want a granny first for how you intend to drive it. The 6.3:1 first is mainly just advantageous for off-roading. And maybe for towing heavy things slowly I guess. On-road, it's not used that much. You'd learn to start off in Second for most situations. So a WR is effectively a three speed. But that has its advantages too in a way, depending on how you look at it. A second-gear start, once mastered, allows for faster overall acceleration. This has been my experience.
     
  20. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    BTW, you didn't list the VIN. THe LSN (Line Sequence number) is D0650. The LSN started at 00001 with the new model year and ran to 9999, at which time it reset. There were a bit more than 40K '73s VINs listed (not all issued), so perhaps the LSNs reset four times in the '73 model year. I'm just curious as to if yours is an early build or later? I don't have many '73 LSTs in my database.
     

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