1962 Scout 80 Clutch Slip

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Luke Anders, Feb 15, 2020.


  1. Luke Anders

    Luke Anders Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    clutch slips bad under load. Are there any tricks to putting the assembly back together? rather not waste $400 on an assembly if not needed. I have a 1962 Scout 80 and it had a tranny leak that was getting the clutch wet. I fixed the tranny leak and when I put it back together it slipped worse. before I took it apart the clutch assembly seemed fine (only problem was the wet clutch). Not sure if I missed anything putting it back together. Throwout bearing disengages completely. I am just wondering if there is something I missed putting it back together. or what this symptoms may mean, hoping I don't have to put $400 down for a new assembly.
     
  2. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,852
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, Ca.
    Any chance you put the clutch disc in backwards so the wrong side faces the flywheel? That causes metal-to-metal contact.
    Also, how did you clean the disc, or did you just replace it? Was everything else clean and were all the adjustments in the pressure plate assembly tight and left the same?
    Lastly, do you have a genuine Factory Service Manual?
     
  3. Luke Anders

    Luke Anders Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    not from what I can tell, I had a picture of it when it was in before and I put it in the same way after. May be a good idea to try and flip it though? thank you!
     
  4. Luke Anders

    Luke Anders Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I soaked the disc in brake cleaner (hopefully not messing it up because I can't find them by themselves anywhere). I did not mess with the pressure plate after I took it off so all springs and everything should be in the same position. I do have the factory service manual.
     
  5. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,852
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, Ca.
    No, it would be a lot of trouble and if it's correct now, would cause more trouble that would require even more work.
    I would look at it, if I could, or feel how it rotates when the pedal is pushed down with a 2x4 and the transmission is in neutral (engine off, of course). Sometimes a small mirror and a flashlight will allow one to see behind things. I should probably have asked first which type it is; I'm not very familiar with the closed cover type. That might not allow seeing or feeling anything.
    I once had a '61 and worked on it a fair amount, but sold it when drafted, half a century ago, so forget most of the details about it.
    Did you use bolts to pull the pressure plate towards the housing so loosening the housing from the flywheel wouldn't be against as much spring pressure...but forget to remove them when reassembling it all?
     
  6. Luke Anders

    Luke Anders Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I can see the whole assembly, it is open. I didn't use any bolts to pull the pressure plate. Everything seems to be in the same place as it was. I was thinking that maybe with the pressure plate being off for a few months, the springs need to be adjusted. I don't know if that is the problem or if I'm even able to adjust them. when I turn it in neutral it all turns together. Driving downhill and even flat the clutch will grab fairly well, but as soon as I'm going uphill it starts slipping terribly and top speed of every gear is 20mph.
     
  7. Luke Anders

    Luke Anders Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    IMG_20190722_135039.jpg IMG_20190722_135045.jpg these are pictures from before I took it apart. They are also the pictures I used putting it back together
     
  8. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,852
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, Ca.
    I can't think of much else that could be wrong. The springs wouldn't change sitting a few months, whether in the vehicle or out of it. If you have a helper, it might be useful to cut a strip, perhaps 1" wide, from some thin sheet metal such as a tin can, form a handle on it so you can pull without getting cut, leaving a few inches free. Have the helper disengage the clutch, then slip the piece between the pressure plate and disc (or disc and flywheel), release the clutch fully. While you apply pressure trying to pull the strip out, have the assistant start applying pressure very slowly, moving in small increments and waiting between movements. See how far down the pedal must be before there's enough clearance for the strip to be pulled out.
    I've never tried doing that so don't know what would be normal, but would think it would indicate a problem if the strip pulls out too soon.
    I wouldn't expect a short soak in brake cleaner could remove so much binder that the disc wouldn't have any friction under pressure. Did it look basically the same as most used discs, after cleaning? Did it get fully dried afterwards? Outgassing could theoretically have some effect reducing effective pressure, if it did occur, but I seriously doubt it could, here.
     
  9. Luke Anders

    Luke Anders Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Ok I might try that this week sometime with my dad.
    I really only sprayed two or so cans worth of brake cleaner on it until I didn't see oil coming off it anymore. It looks like it is in fairly good condition, good wear pattern and still quite a bit of meat. It was able to dry for a few days after I sprayed it. I don't feel like the brake cleaner could have had a huge impact. It is very possible that it's just time to replace pressure plate and all, just strange that it all worked before I took it apart and doesn't now.
     
  10. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,852
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, Ca.
    My manual has a procedure for using spacers under the pressure plate to adjust the lever heights. If you pull the assembly off again, you might set yours up with the correct spacers and see if it's adjusted properly. I generally prefer to rebuild my old, 'good' units rather than exchanging them for an unknown unit.
    I'm surprised no other regulars here have chimed in; some must have some suggestions I'm forgetting.
     
  11. Luke Anders

    Luke Anders Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I will take it off and look at my manual with it side by side. I do like the idea of rebuilding it, do you know where I could find the spacers as well as rebuild parts or kits. I know scout parts has a lot of stuff but their pricing seems up there.
    You have been great help, thank you, I know this is an interesting situation
     
  12. kevingweq

    kevingweq Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    3,165
    Likes Received:
    774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Royalston
    I believe your clutch disc is oil saturated , causing the slipping
     
  13. Luke Anders

    Luke Anders Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I sprayed it with about 2 cans of brake cleaner, do you think there would still be oil on there? or that maybe the brake cleaner messed something up? the strange thing is that before I took it apart, even when it was wet with oil, it seemed to be grabbing better than it does now.
     
  14. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,852
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, Ca.
    Spacers can be anything of the correct thickness. Pieces of scrap metal, possibly even pop-sickle sticks wrapped with tape. The measurement I recall is 0.320" (I could be wrong) for my Code 11215 unit. Three spacers 'exactly' the same would be needed.
    If you need to buy parts, often an internet search using the IH part number will turn up LightLine dealers, sometimes other reputable sources. A good Clutch Repair shop near you might be worth contacting too. I would suggest staying away from the place you cited above, for more reasons than just the immoral pricing. If you need parts you just can't find, put an ad in the Wanted section here. Don't throw anything away; even worn parts can be used as models by people who can reproduce them.
    I once (~1968) needed (and couldn't find) Grade 8 left-handed bolts for the ring gear of my Power-Lok differential in that '61 Model 80 I then had. A friend of my father's made them for me. Now I can do it myself, if/when I can get to my machinery...
     
  15. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,602
    Likes Received:
    901
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sacramento,California
    F
    Find a shop that can rebuild your clutch disk.

    You did clean the flywheel, right?
     
  16. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,602
    Likes Received:
    901
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sacramento,California
    Think about it this way, before it was tick oil trying to seep in to the pores. Then you sprayed it with brake cleaner. So then it was oil thinned down with brake cleaner seeping into the pores. I don't know this for a fact it anything, but it's possible if got oil even deeper into the friction material. When it gets hot, it probably seeps out of the pores lubricating it
     
  17. Luke Anders

    Luke Anders Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I will try the spacers, and those should tighten the force on the clutch? I will look around for local shops, i am in central Texas so I'm sure there is something around here. I will definitely keep everything I have taken off, she came with a box of scraps to begin with.
     
  18. Luke Anders

    Luke Anders Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Yes, I sprayed it with brake cleaner and took it to my auto shop in school where the instructor said it didn't need to be turned. I took it off of the engine to check the rear main seal and in the time it was off it got some surface rust, I cleaned that off and sanded it, but I have been thinking that with it getting surface rust it lost friction surface.
     
  19. Luke Anders

    Luke Anders Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I never thought of that but it's very possible, could the answer be more brake cleaner or should I take it to be rebuilt like you said before?
     
  20. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,852
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, Ca.
    No, the assembly is mounted on a flat surface (the flywheel will do) with the spacers in place of the disc. The height of the lever is measured, or adjusted to be correct. See if your manual has the procedure. Yours will probably be set fairly close to correct.
    Your instructor could probably look at the disc and give a good opinion about whether excess oil is causing all or most of the problem, assuming he really has a good background in auto mechanics or machine shop work.
    I personally doubt the cleaner forced/allowed the oil to penetrate further, but think any excess oil, if already present, could be removed in two ways. The first by soaking for an hour or two in clean paint thinner/Naptha (which will dissolve the oil but not destroy the binders). The second by wrapping in some adsorbent paper towels, then inside aluminum foil, perhaps then inside a dutch oven, and baking in an oven at 250* (measured, not per the control dial) for an hour or more. Used ovens (from Craigslist?) or discarded ones (from appliance dealers who remove old ones when delivering/installing new ones) are readily available (free, less the hassle of getting/storing) around here, but the accurate measurement would be harder for you to achieve. A remote digital thermometer good for 350-400*F might be found on Ebay, but I won't suggest that now.

    Slightly sanding the pressure plate to remove rust should increase friction over that of a polished surface so should be insignificant here.
     

Share This Page