14 bolt corporate - liv'n large with the "plow"

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by LeeC, May 30, 2004.

  1. LeeC

    LeeC Guest

    Elbow deep in rear axle grease today. Pulling apart two 14 bolt Corporate 10.5" rear ends to see what they have inside...

    Axle #1 is out of a 1978 3/4 PU:
    Ring gear stamped: 0 GM 399 24 84 - 11 41 9 78 (41 teeth)
    Pinion end stamped: 992490-11-41

    Axle #2 is out of a 1984 3/4 PU 2500 Sierra Special:
    Ring gear stamped: S GM 327720 - 14 45 9 83 (45 teeth)
    Pinion end stamped: (no markings)

    My front Dana 44 HD has 4.09 gears, so I need a 4.09-4.10 rear setup.




  2. Why3zx

    Why3zx Farmall Cub

    the 11 41 is 3.73 and the 14 45 R&P is 3.21 (i didnt even know that they made road gears like that in a 14 bolt) but the trick to decyphering any dana or GM axel is that the teeth count is stamped on the ring gear, on the GM the first number is the teeth on the pinion and the second is the number of teeth on the ring, simply divide the ring by the pinion,
    so the bad news is that you will be searching for some new gears, just as i am, i am halfway through the same swap , IT IS CAKE!!

    good luck
  3. Why3zx

    Why3zx Farmall Cub

    on the 14 bolt you can olny tell about the carrier by holding one hub and trying to spin the other (if the other is spinnable the diff is open if it tries to spin the one that you are holding then there is some sort of traction device), but with those gears they are most likely both off of two by trucks and it is unlikley that either has any kind of traction carrier.

    one question for you, what truck did you get the front off of, and what is the casting stamped (44-5f, 6f, 8f,).? and is it 8 lug or six, i am trying to find out exactly what mine is.

  4. LeeC

    LeeC Guest

    Rory -

    Darn!!! I was hoping one of the two would be 4.09-4.10...

    I have two D44 HD fronts, both with 8-lug disc. They both are stamped 44-8F. I'm not sure what they came out of. I only pulled one and I have that guys number. I will try to call him, as that truck still had the rear axle in it that matches my front. He was only using the small block 400 for his project.

    I can't believe the 1984 2500 Sierra Custom/Special has a 3.21 gear set in a Corporate 14 bolt with 10.5" ring. I did see 3.21 ring & pinions offered at drivetrain.com for $475 (ouch!). I'll let my neighbor know what he has in his soon to be truck-bed tailer parts truck. I was hoping to slap my 3.73 into it without the drums, backing plates, axles or ring & pinion for his trailer and use his rea end if it was 4.10.

    Still surprised at the 32.21 ?!?!?! Are you sure that is what those numbers mean?
  5. Why3zx

    Why3zx Farmall Cub

    yeah pretty sure about those numbers, if you pull the carrier, really easy on a 14 bolt, and count the teeth on the pinion you the numbers would line up.
    it sounds like you should take the R&P and sell it on ebay, those gears must be popular for the street cars that people put shortened 14 bolts under. it sounds like you could fund a new R&P and a detroit, good news is that 4.09 gears (most likely 4.11 or 4.10 but will still work) will work on your carrier, the break for the high carrier is at 4.56 for the FF 14 Bolt

    one other question, what kind of hubs do your fronts have, and do you know if the IH spacers and hubs will work? i have one of the same axels, the 44-8f heavy duty.

  6. LeeC

    LeeC Guest

    My Dana 44 HD front 8-lug disc came out of a 1978 3/4 ton 4x4 Pickup. The guy thought it was a Corporate on the phone, but when I got there it was a Dana. Lucky me! Had auto hub though... :(
  7. LeeC

    LeeC Guest

    One has auto hubs and the other manual. This is going under a 1968 IH Travelall that currently has a closed knuckle front with IH manual hubs.

    I've been told that I can install the "IH" logo hubs on the 68 closed into the Dana 44, but haven't tried it yet.

    If/since the 3.21 14 bolt ring & pinion is rare, I should be able to find someone with the very common 4.10's to exchange with. My 3.73 rear is an open carrier (one wheel spins free). I was told when I bought it, that it was the one you can drop a $300 detriot locker into. "He" told me that the Gov-lock rears won't accept the detroit locker (?).

    Is that your understanding too?
  8. harkinoff

    harkinoff Farmall Cub

    I got my Yukon gears for my 14 bolt from Porc on the Pirate page, 488's were 159.00, and the master install kit was 85.00 I believe.. go to the vendor section on Pirate 4x4 and look for Porc
  9. Joe D.

    Joe D. High Wheeler

    On any ring and pinion, you can count the number of teeth on the ring and the pinion gears and divide them to get the ratio. Going by the numbers is great, but not the only way.

    You can tell by looking what type of carrier you have. If you can see spider gears, then it is an open carrier. Very easy to put a detroit into, but the prices have gone up to more than $300, but they're still cheaper than other axles. If don't see spider gears, you have a limited slip carrier. If it's factory, then it should be a gov-lock. The 14 bolt gov loc is pretty strong, but a detroit is much stronger. Only the open carrier has room for the detroit, it replaces the spider gears.
  10. LeeC

    LeeC Guest

    Thanks all...

    Anyone want to trade a Corporate 14 bolt 10.5" open carrier 4.10 ring & pinion for a 3.73?

    I'm going to be running 34.5" tires and I need to match my 4.10 fromt axle.

    I'm in SoCal, LA or Orange County.
  11. Joe D.

    Joe D. High Wheeler

  12. scotty85

    scotty85 Farmall Cub

    let me know where to sell my 3.21 gearset if you guys decide theyre worth some $$ ;) thats what came in my 14 bolt,wich is from and 80 or 81 2wd pickup. that ratio is not uncommon in the 80s

    4.10 is not an uncommon ratio in the older 4wd trucks,so check stuff in the mid/late 70s for factory gears and keep your eyeballs peeled on pirate 4x4 and ebay. we gave $40 apiece for a 4.10 and a 4.56 gearset from a guy on pirate. the 4.56 was even an aftermarket thick set,that im currently running on my 4.10 and hihger carrier. :D with the newfound popularity of the 14 bolt there are alot of people upgrading them to 4.88-5.13 so a 4.10 shouldnt be that tough to find

    if your 8 lug 44s have 6 bolt external lockouts,you prolly will be able to use the IH hubs,but youll need to swap the 19 spline stubs and use your current 27 spline ones. :cool:
  13. LeeC

    LeeC Guest

    Yup, the 3.21 is in a 1984 2wd...

    If prices are that cheap for 4.10 setups, then I guess I will go forward and start working with this axle housing I have. Plan to go to the Pamona Fairgrounds Auto Swapmeet here in California this coming weekend, maybe I will get lucky!

    Being a Travelal guy, I have to ask for a photo of your "shoertened, tubed Travelall in progress" :confused: What year body style is it?
  14. scotty85

    scotty85 Farmall Cub

    i was pretty lucky to find a 4.56 that cheap,but if you keep your eyeballs peeled,im sure youll come up with a set of 4.10s for a decent price. i still have that set i got for $40,if i was 100% sure i wasnt gonna need em,id let ya have em for what i got in em,but i may end up needing em in my scout buggy contraption.

    i dont have any photos of it yet,i actually havent even started on it yet : :eek: i just put it in my sig sos yall wouldnt think i was lurking on your forum for no good reason ;)

    not 100 % sure what year or body style it is,im not real familiar with them. we picked it up cheap for a parts truck,a friend of mine that runs a scout ii wants the axles. my current trail rig is a jeep,but ive always liked IH rigs,and since i didnt part it out and scrap it right away,the longer it sat on my trailer awaiting disassembly i decided that it certainly coulndt hurt me to have a 2nd trail rig,so id always have one or the other ready to wheel and not miss a trip since one of them torn down for modifications.

    since my frined is keeping the axles,it will prolly get my favorite combo(10 bolt/14 bolt). it has a 345/auto that supposedly runs,so it will stay with that for ahwile if it does run,and i have a line on a 4 speed to put in it,since i dont care to wheel an auto

    the body is junk. i plan to cut a chunk out of that nice long flat spot on the frame to shorten the 116 inches to 102. cut off pretty much all the body and add a cage. i was originally planning on keeping most of the firewall,but imnot sure if ill do that,or just use that as a refernece to mount everyting(pedals,steering column)in relatively the same spot.

    i do plan on hanging the fenders,hood and grill back on it sos it keeps that cool scout look :cool:

    PHIPPEN Farmall Cub

    Hi Lee,

    I know this is an old post, but I have been reading up on your buildup as well as the TerrorAll :rolleyes: . I have a 1968 TravelAll and am looking to put HD Chevy, 8 lug 44 in front and the same 14 bolt you are using out back. My question is, did the offset of the pinion on the 14 bolt pose any problems? (I believe it's offset 1 1/4 inches?) I just acquired my T'All and haven't measure the pinion location on the stock 44 in the rear... Thanks.

  16. Supremebeholder

    Supremebeholder High Wheeler

    The offset is nothing to worry about as long as the driveshaft doesn't hit anything.
  17. LeeC

    LeeC Guest

    To be perfectly honest, I didn't know there was an offset :eek:

    I haven't got that rear axle in yet because I wanted to install a detriot locker and new rear leaf springs (money/time has been short). Plan to pick up a detriot locker this week and start finishing up the axle for installation. You have to relocate the leaf spring perches, so you can set them up correctly for the hieght spring you chose at that time.

    I know others have put this beefy axle in, so my best guess is the "offset" you speak of is not an issue. ;)

    PHIPPEN Farmall Cub

    Thanks for the response Lee. Now that I think about it, with the gas tanks up front, there isn't anything to worry about with the pinion offset of the 14 bolt... I am very interested to see how far the extra backspacing of the H2 rims tuck the tires in. :cool: Good luck on your project and keep us updated. :D
  19. LeeC

    LeeC Guest


    I have the front H2 wheels and tires on the 1972 Travelall doner frame and driveline truck now. The ~2" wider '72 Chebby Dana 44 HD disc front axle lets the H2 rims sit beautifully, but I haven't setup the steering to see how it effects the turning radius yet (measurements looked okay). I can shot you a picture of the H2 rims on the front of the '72 Travelall if you like, just give me your email address.

    I measured the rear and they look tight, but okay for the 1968 Travelall body. I don't think they will fit the '72 Travelall rear fender well opening (may rub on the front outer body edge). If I recall correctly, the H2 stock tires measure about a 1/2 inch smaller then the stated height.

    The 17" wheel size lets all the front and rear disc brake setups, as well as, the front tie rod and steering fit just fine and are tucked in for protection. They look real meaty, with the outside tread edge right at the outside fender edge.

    SWEET LOOK! :D Hope it all works out in the end. I will keep you posted and possibly start a Hum-all thread similar to the wonderful T-Rex one when I really get going on the project.

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