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View Full Version : The 'Luther Revival' thread.....


Dennis Bernth
10-17-2009, 07:48 PM
Pretty slow around here this week, so I figured I'd post a little bit and at least get us a later 'last post' date. Spent yesterday doing some errands and putting a new driver's side exhaust manifold on my F150 (the old one came off in two pieces, no wonder I was getting fumes inside) so that the garage would be clear to put ol Luther inside and start work. For anybody that hasn't checked out my sig line, Luther is a 74 Scout II with a Terra top that is going to be my plow truck. I actually owned Luther and did a lot of work (body mounts, heavy diamond plate floors, replaced engine, and some other stuff) about 8 years ago, used him one year to plow snow, then sold him and regretted it. Saw an ad on the 'new' BB that sounded suspiciously like Luther....it was, a deal was struck and he is home again after a 7 year absence. Luther has been sitting in a heated garage for the last four years and hasn't been run in that time, so I need to do a 'revival' on him and make sure I don't screw up what was a 91K mile sweet running 304 that I put in him.

My wife was less than enthused about having to steer Luther while I pushed and pulled with the bobcat....she said 'you're going to end up smashing something and you'll get all mad' and I said nope, not going to happen- I sold my old waste oil stove this morning and loaded it on the guy's nice Powerstroke crew cab and looked like an expert with that bobcat, and I'm going to be real careful not to dent up Luther. Unfortunately she has some history to draw that conclusion from :hammer:

The first problem came when I tried to pull Luther forward to give her room to make the swing in the driveway- both back wheels were sliding on the gravel, and giving the little bobcat all it wanted. Finally got it moved enough so that I could get behind it and push, that worked better- the step bumper rode up on the bobcat blade, took some weight off the rear end, and the tires just kind of slid over the surface, moved much easier.

I got in front and carefully leveled the blade so that I wouldn't bend up the new shackles the PO put on, and so I wouldn't pop over the front bumper with the blade, and started pushing. The brakes evidently weren't locked up in this direction, it rolled fine and all was good until I hit a dip in the driveway that I forgot about with the back wheels of the bobcat. Back goes down, front goes up, blade rides over the bumper, CRUNCH! Even over the sound of the bobcat with a leaking exhaust manifold my wife could hear what I said (probably the neighbors too) and she just shook her head......I got out and looked, luckily it was just the front lower valance and it was in the 'slotted' part, I think it'll pull out easy enough even, and I didn't catch the radiator :stupid: Of course I yelled at my wife, blaming her for her self fulfilling prophecy....

The rest of getting Luther in the shop was pretty straightforward- although the passenger side rear tire slid again going forward, might be that the guy's kid put the E brake on or something, just one more thing I have to deal with.

Right now, the order of work looks like- 1) take old Prestolite distributor that I have laying here and make a drill driven pre oiling fixture out of it- won't take long, remove the gear, weld a bolt in to the top of the shaft where the rotor went and I'll be able to spin it with a 3/8" drill.
2) change oil in the engine, then use tool above to spin the oil pump and prime the engine. After spinning it up for a couple minutes, rotate engine slightly, spin it again, rinse and repeat until I've made two complete revolutions and I'm back where I started so I can drop the distributor back in.
3) check how much gas is in the tank, and get out as much as I can, replace with fresh fuel, replace fuel filter and fuel hoses, and prime carb.
4) turn the key and see what happens (after replacing the long dead battery that is).
5) days and days of miscellaneous junk that needs to be done- new stock shifter and shift cable on the trans. PO installed a nice Hurst shifter, but it doesn't like having to bend around the cable like a 727 has to in a Scout II, he toasted the original cable in ten minutes on the exhaust manifold, I don't want to fry the new one he replaced it with. Then find out why the brakes are dragging, change brake fluid and bleed brakes, flush antifreeze and replace hoses, and last but not least install plow. I'll keep up to date as I go, and even take a few pics....this isn't a show truck by any means, it's a solid, kind of ugly, snow plowing mo-fo. If it all works out, Luther may get a new bed floor in the spring along with new fiberglass outer quarters and a new paint job- the Sears Weatherbeater gray that he is now is pretty ugly. The only high point of the whole exercise was when my wife said 'if I was going to have a Scout, this is the kind I want, this is really cool, like a little pickup truck'. THAT sounds like an excuse to fix up Luther for her, and for me to get something else to plow with.....I would REALLY like a Traveler or Terra, and I'd almost give the left one if it had a glass body- I could dump the F150 and go all IH. Oh well, I'll keep lookin.....

michigan scout
10-18-2009, 05:38 PM
well dennis you will find one...hint hint...you can find a needle in a hay stack when looking for scouts...keep photos up on your new project...It has been slow I can't use the paint shop on for the wagonmaster till mid novemeber...oh well...gives me time to order some clips and stuff I need for the trim. It's weird how stuff like that vanishes...

Dennis Bernth
10-19-2009, 09:44 AM
OK, got a small start today, I got the 'pre oiling tool' done. Pretty simple, I had an old Prestolite electronic distributor that I had robbed parts off of and that was about two steps away from getting tossed into the 'next trip to the scrap yard' pile when I had a brain fart. I used to (before the fire) have a tool I used to preoil IH engines that I made by working down a long wood drill bit on a grinder. It worked fine, was a lot like this- http://www.shopih.com/IHENG-OPDT-p-T5.html and I used it several times. But it was kind of a PITA at times because you had to keep the bit engaged with the slot in the oil pump, and it would want to 'walk' on you and there was no way to support it so it would stay in position. Since a picture is worth a thousand words, here are a couple of what I did.....five minutes or less on the bench grinder and the 'teeth' were removed from the drive gear, a few passes on the grinder to the head of a 5/16" bolt to make it a tight fit in the top of the distributor shaft, then fired up the 110V MIG and welded it in. You actually could probably do without that last- it was a tight fit, and if you didn't have a welder you could do the same thing with JB Weld probably as long as it's a tight fit. Now when I drop it into Luther's engine, it will fit right where the distributor did, be supported, and be a lot easier to use- I'll be able to stop priming, check for flow, then start again without having to re-find the slot and engage it again.

Dennis Bernth
10-19-2009, 09:54 AM
Here are a couple of pics of what I'm working with....lousy pics cause it's in the shop, of course I didn't take any when it was outside and I had room! But you get the idea anyway. Hope to pull the distributor tomorrow and get the pre oiling part done, and maybe even try to start it if I have time. I'll probably just run it out of a jug of gas with a hose run to it for now til I can clean the tank out. On the interior pic, you'll probably notice that it's a non-stock shifter, but you can't see the cool 'IH' logo shift ball the PO put on it, it really looks pretty good but I'm not a fan of that shifter. And in the last pic, you can see the 'owwie' I put on the lower valance with the bobcat blade.....

michigan scout
10-19-2009, 09:59 AM
Just let me know when you get it all finished I will be down to pick it up :punk:

Dennis Bernth
10-19-2009, 03:04 PM
Just let me know when you get it all finished I will be down to pick it up :punk:

Negatory....today at least, who knows tomorrow :hammer:

Dennis Bernth
10-22-2009, 11:21 AM
Nuthin done on this project lately, and looks like nothing going to get done in the next few days.....I remembered that one of my parts Scouts had just water in the cooling system ( I filled it so I could try to get it fired up and see how it ran, which I did and it ran fine) so I had to fix that problem. Drained the water and fired it up and put in antifreeze, good running engine so I don't want to lose it to a cracked block.
I've been having problems with a tooth hurting, went to the dentist and found out it's an impacted wisdom tooth, so tomorrow I go and have it and it's twin upstairs taken out by an oral surgeon. Besides any kind of dental surgery being a major PITA, I had to spend some money I could have spent on Scouts :hammer: to get it done. And, I have to get my leaf vac up and running, it's that time of year, so the Luther Revival is having to take a temporary back seat....

Dennis Bernth
12-01-2009, 03:44 PM
I can't beleive it took so long to get back to this thing! I shoved it deeper into the shop because I had to deal with leaf cleanup, then more outside stuff, etc etc etc.....the nice weather we've had this fall has given me a chance to do more outside, so I didn't really get at Luther again. Today, I went out and did some work on a waste oil heater I'm putting together, then while I had to wait for the paint to dry I decided to tear into Luther. Marked the position of the distributor and the rotor, pulled it, then used my homemade oil pump priming tool to spin the oil pump and prelube the engine. Dropped the distributor back in (and it went back in the right spot, go figure!), poured some fresh gas into the carb throat and down the vent tube to fill the bowl, and cranked it. It fired right up, and ran pretty well although the exhaust stunk because of the old gas. Shut it down and poured some fresh gas in the tank (it was almost empty anyway) and fired it back up again, the longer it ran the worse it got. Then I noticed that I had gas laying on the floor, tracked it to the charcoal canister and then back to the carb- the float was stuck. Couple raps with the hammer, floor the accelerator to clear out the excess gas, and it's running great. It has an exhaust leak, sounds like a muffler took a dump on it, and some other issues such as no transmission shifter or cable hooked up, but at least I can move it around now by shifting the tranny by hand through the missing tunnel plate. Ran out of time this morning, so tomorrow I need to set the timing and cinch down the distributor, hook up the vacuum advance, and then I can get it up in the air and see what the story is with the one brake that seems to be hanging up. Once that's fixed, I can pull it outside and move in the Traveler I plan to plow with and work on getting the plow put on, they're calling for snow later this week although hopefully not enough to need a plow!

michigan scout
12-01-2009, 10:00 PM
keep it going Dennis...I have a brand new muffler on a parts scout that even still has the paper sticker on it...if you need it let me know I will send it your way....

Dennis Bernth
12-02-2009, 09:26 AM
Thanks D, but I've got a couple here, plus a near new turbo muffler that I took off of something, so I should be covered. I don't know if I'll deal with the muffler or not, I'm about to go out and put it up in the air and check out the brake problem and maybe move it out of the shop if I can. Then I'll move in the Traveler, they're calling for snow....not that I'll get the plow on in time (more overtime coming up), but at least I won't be working on a drippy, melting Scout when I do start on it.

Dennis Bernth
12-02-2009, 03:42 PM
Another morning, another small amount of progress. I ended up pulling both rear wheels, both rear drums, and then loosening the brakes up some so that it would roll without skidding the wheels. I'm semi-convinced that somebody pushed the parking brake partway down and now it's stuck; I released the foot pedal, and it came up, but from experience I know it's possible (likely?) for an old truck to have rusty cables that will hang up and hold pressure on the brakes. I think that's what I'm dealing with, although loosening the adjusters did let the wheels turn freely. And, while I had it up in the air, I confirmed that the driver's side muffler is toast. Passenger side, as well as the rest of the exhaust, looks good though.
I was really rethinking my plan to put the plow on the Traveler I recently bought after I was under Luther- it has all new springs, shocks, new U joints in the driveshafts (front and rear), PO had put a shift kit in the trans and had cleaned up the trans and transfer....I thought I should maybe just go with it. But then I started to figure what it would take to get it roadworthy (minor stuff, but time consuming) like redoing the gauges, put in a stock shifter along with a new shift cable, replace all the brake lines (I noticed how rusty and nasty they looked, I don't trust em at all) and figured I'd stick with the more 'known' item, the Traveler, which runs and drives. My judgement was confirmed in short order...
I fired up ol Luther, started right up (even with a junk battery I had laying here from my wife's old car) and ran good. Problems started when I reached through the hole in the floor to shift it.....I got movement forward, but none in reverse. Got out and checked the fluid, and nothing showed on the stick- no doubt that's the problem! Added a few quarts of fluid (almost four, but the PO put a deep pan on) and got it to where the fluid showed on the stick, which means it should move. And it does, forward.....still no reverse. The engine slows down, I get a noise, but no movement rearward. I suspect either an issue when he did the shift kit, or something that didn't get put back together correctly.....either way, more time to tackle it, and maybe have to put in another trans, so I made the right call on the plow truck. Pushed it out of the shop by hand, drove it forward in line to where I wanted it, then chained it to the bobcat and pushed it back into a parking hole. Once I get the plow on and the Traveler squared away, I'll probably revisit it....but for now it's out of the way, the Traveler is in the shop, and the plow goes on Friday. Now I'm off to do a search on the main forum about 'no reverse', I know it's been addressed, I just have to find the posts.....

michigan scout
12-02-2009, 06:00 PM
Dennis,

here is my two cents on no reverse. This has happened to me on two scouts and a dodge truck with the same trans. Long story short when the trans needs rebuilt, reverse is the first to go...it did on the three I mentioned. I do not remember the exact diagnosis of the problem though. I had one scout that slipped when cold but let it sit and warm up before driving and never a issue...post what you find out I need to refresh my memory

Dennis Bernth
12-02-2009, 08:44 PM
Dennis,

here is my two cents on no reverse. This has happened to me on two scouts and a dodge truck with the same trans. Long story short when the trans needs rebuilt, reverse is the first to go...it did on the three I mentioned. I do not remember the exact diagnosis of the problem though. I had one scout that slipped when cold but let it sit and warm up before driving and never a issue...post what you find out I need to refresh my memory

Well, when I sold Luther that trans was good, and he didn't drive it hard at all so I tend to doubt it went belly up that fast. I suspect that somewhere in the pulling and reinstalling of the valve body, something got turned around or left out. Probably not in the valve body or I wouldn't feel the 'engagement', but downstream somewhere. It's not like I don't have a spare trans (or four) but if I don't need to swap I don't want to have to. When I get a chance I'll tear into it and figure it out, I'm checking with Scott H too, he's worked at a tranny shop and rebuilt a bunch of 727's and is pretty up on them.

Scott H
12-03-2009, 10:40 AM
Dennis,
If you can feel it "pull down" the engine then I would check the reverse bad adjustment and or the strut. Most of those shift kits give instructions to adjust the bands "per their way". Most of the self installed B&M shift kited trannys that I fixed the installer got the band adjustment wrong. If that doesn't help, change the valve body out with a good stocker, they could have drilled out a wrong passage?

PS, you should put a 12 inch thick piece of real soft rubber on the front of that bob cat!:D
Scott

Dennis Bernth
12-04-2009, 03:44 PM
Thanks Scott, when I get a chance I'll roll it in and check that stuff out. And you're right about the bobcat, I keep thinking I need to rig up a couple of tires on the front of the bucket for shoving stuff around, problem is I only think of it when I need to push something around. Then, I don't want to spend the time on it, I want it moved now! So, it doesn't get done....