L-Series Wheels

[DadsL130]

Help. Just discovered that my L130 apparently has Budd Wheels - dually in rear. I also just discovered I have what was apparently the original spec card that with came with the truck that illustrates how the wheels are attached - says "left hand threads" on driver's side and "right hand threads" on passenger side. This will obviously help eliminate major frustration (and broken studs) as I try to get off these lug nuts that have been rusting themselves fast for the past 40 years. Can anyone help me with this? And while we on the subject - a guy in classified ads has "Budd" dually's for sale. He says they're "Travall "60s?" but sounds like they'd fit my wheels. I could either "restore" these, or put them on the truck while I have the originals worked. Is there a source for Budd Wheels? I'm a real newby here, guys!! Help!! Larry

[Rob Peterson]

Yes, those trucks did have left-hand threads. The ends of those studs will be marked with an "L". Budds are usually torqued on pretty tight. I had to invest in a 3/4" breaker bar, a short extension and a Budd nut socket to remove the wheels on my Budd-equipped S-140. Hit the threads with PB Blaster first. You will probably need an impact wrench or a BIG cheater bar on the breaker to get them loose.

[DadsL130]

Thanks for the info, Rob. PB Blaster seems to be the ticket with rusted lugs according to several sources. How about heat? And, oh, do you own that Metro that accompanies your member ID? Will have my hands full with
DadsL130 for quite a while, but am intrigued with the Metro's I'm seeing on the BB site. I'm in the remodeling business and think driving a Metro around my community would be great marketing. For now going to just have to dream. Got lots of knuckle bustin' to do on the old L130 before even thinking about the next project. Larry

[Rob Peterson]

do you own that Metro that accompanies your member ID?

Yessirree - that's mine, resplendent in all it's grey-primer glory!

[truckdog62563]

Budd literature says they are torqued at 400 psi to 500 psi, and if the shop followed the manufacturers instuctions, they were torqued dry. A lot of shops wrongly used oil or anti-seiz which makes they even tighter. Heat, PB blaster, and a BFH work for me. Stu

[MarkO]

Be careful using impact wrenches if they are really tight.

The impact pounding can round off the corners and make taking the lug nuts off even harder.

[WRENCH MAN]

Budd literature says they are torqued at 400 psi to 500 psi,

How do you measure "Pounds per Square Inch" on a lug nut!????, I use ftlbs myself.

Be careful using impact wrenches The impact pounding can round off the corners and make taking the lug nuts off even harder.

If you have the CORRECT socket they don't.

[DadsL130]

Budd literature says they are torqued at 400 psi to 500 psi, and if the shop followed the manufacturers instuctions, they were torqued dry. A lot of shops wrongly used oil or anti-seiz which makes they even tighter. Heat, PB blaster, and a BFH work for me. Stu

Do the B and the H in BFH stand for "big" and "hammer"? Larry

[DadsL130]

Yes, those trucks did have left-hand threads. The ends of those studs will be marked with an "L". Budds are usually torqued on pretty tight. I had to invest in a 3/4" breaker bar, a short extension and a Budd nut socket to remove the wheels on my Budd-equipped S-140. Hit the threads with PB Blaster first. You will probably need an impact wrench or a BIG cheater bar on the breaker to get them loose.

What do you mean by a "Budd Nut Socket" and where does one find them?
A 1" deep socket seems to fit the nuts pretty well, but I'm guessing Budd Sockets are more sturdy? Some guy on eBay has a tool he's calling a Ken-Tool Wrench for Budd Wheels. Every hear of such a tool? I have 6 wheels with 6 studs each which have been rusting for over 30 years. I'm going to need all the suggestions you guys have to get those suckers off!! Thanks.

[Doc Stewart]

BFH Big Fine Hammer!
Budd nut sockets are 6 point not 12 point.

[Doc Stewart]

REMOVING STUCK / BROKEN NUTS OR BOLTS
Old and/or rusty bolts call for good sockets/wrenches. Cheap tools have greater tolerances when close tolerances will make or break the job. This is the reason the real mechanics buy the expensive stuff.
Before attempting to turn off a rusty nut or bolt, smack it smartly with a hammer being careful not to damage any protruding threads. The impacts break up the rust crystals. Soak it with your favorite penetrant. Use plain old ATF or Kroil, Break-Free, P-Blaster, Liquid Wrench, etc. Leave it overnight if time allows. Use a 6 point socket. An air wrench is better than your breaker bar. If it comes loose; job done.

Also try heating the nut to almost red with a rosebud. Let it cool, apply more penetrant and turn it off.

[Rob Peterson]

My Budd Nut Socket is a deep-set heavy-wall impact socket. The outer portion has a 6-point 1.5" opening, the inner section has a .75" square (basically just an extension of the wrench drive) that is used for removing the inner stud nuts that hold on the inside dually wheels.

[Paul "Misterfixit" Schulz]

Budd literature says they are torqued at 400 psi to 500 psi, and if the shop followed the manufacturers instuctions, they were torqued dry. A lot of shops wrongly used oil or anti-seiz which makes they even tighter. Heat, PB blaster, and a BFH work for me. Stu


I am going to disagree here, i would dearly love to see anyone get 400 - 500 ft/lbs of torque onto one of these lug nuts with the factory supplied wheel brace etc, to get that kind of torque the bar would need to be about 4 foot long which obviously did not come in the factory tool kit! Modern ten stud budds require that range of torque, more on alloys.

25 plus years of working with trucks has me agreeing on the 'do not use anti-seize' but i recommend the use of oil on the lug nut threads and more importantly on the tapered mating surface of the nuts, i have seen many many stuck lug nuts, bent many many bars trying to get them undone, i can suggest that you support the wheel brace with a jack stand to keep it square to the lug nut and therefore you can apply much more pressure to the bar, but my trucks and my customers trucks over the years have never had the same issues because of the oil use.

[WRENCH MAN]

the inner section has a .75" square

Are you sure!????, I bet it says 13/16"?

[Rob Peterson]

Are you sure!????, I bet it says 13/16"?

It's unmarked and could very well be 13/16", now that you mention it.

[Mark Ashford]

Invest in a Budd socket, money well spent. I have a broken 1-1/2" or whatever socket to show for it :D I got mine at Napa, search around for some threads with me in and the key word "budd" and you should find PN. It was only like $30 or so but made the world a MUCH nicer place.

Procedure is to remove the outer lug nuts (1.5" hex), then remove the outer wheel, then remove the inner "thimble" that holds the inner wheel on (the 13/16" square). Makes perfect sense once you get into it.


I actually invested in an inexpensive Harbor Freight 3/4" Impact just for the task or working on my (no two) Budd equipped rigs, took it back. Don't know if it was stubborn lugs, not enough air, unsatisfactory tools or all the above but I found 3/4" ratchet or breaker bar and a 5' piece of 1.5 or 1.25" Schedule 40 pipe works just fine. PB helps as well.


Takes a little while, and don't be afraid to bounce on the bar every once in a while, they will be on their tight.

[MarkO]

If the lugs are standard Budd wheels all of the above will apply.

If the lugs are the standard found on light line vehicles, the standard Budd tools won't fit--they will be too big.

Regardless of the size of the lug nut, most of the above in regards to getting stuck lug nuts off would apply.

It would help if you had someone helping you while doing this task.

Using some sort of prop to keep the line of the socket and extension level is very important as you apply leverage.

Have your helper hit the outside of the socket with a heavy hammer as you apply leverage can be helpful as well.

If you are using hand tools, a torque multiplier is really handy. They can be found for rent in many urban areas.

As Mark A. found out, using cheap tools isn't necessarily a cost savings.

If the socket isn't a good quality 6-point impact socket it can round off the corners of the lug nut if the impact wrench is big enough.

[truckdog62563]

OK, ya got me. Foot/pounds. Sorry.

As for oil on threads, the literature says that's correct for modern hub piloted systems, not older style stud pilot mounts. Here's an Accuride chart that shows torque on a 3/4 x 16 stud to be between 450 and 500 pounds of dry torque. I've read that a normal sized man standing on a 3' cheater bar yields about that much torque. Stu
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll89/truckdog62563/wheels/torquechart3.jpg

[DadsL130]

Replying to my own tread started 12/12 regarding Budd wheels. Long story short, apparently a "standard" Budd Socket is a 1 1/4 six-point socket with a 3/4" square socket incorporated to remove the bolts that hold dual wheels together. However my L130's wheels have 1" lug nuts, although they are right thread on passenger side and left thread on driver side. I got a "generic" 3/4" drive 1" six-point socket at NAPA - part #NHPD632 - for
$29.09 plus 7% Indiana Sales Tax. If you ask for a "Budd Socket" you'll get the 1 1/4 - 3/4 model (Part # for that one is 61-6826). DadsL130 in Indy.

[WRENCH MAN]

Replying to my own tread started 12/12 regarding Budd wheels. Long story short, apparently a "standard" Budd Socket is a 1 1/4 six-point socket with a 3/4" square socket incorporated to remove the bolts that hold dual wheels together. However my L130's wheels have 1" lug nuts, although they are right thread on passenger side and left thread on driver side. I got a "generic" 3/4" drive 1" six-point socket at NAPA - part #NHPD632 - for
$29.09 plus 7% Indiana Sales Tax. If you ask for a "Budd Socket" you'll get the 1 1/4 - 3/4 model (Part # for that one is 61-6826). DadsL130 in Indy.

A "standard" BUDD socket is 1 1/2" hex x 13/16" square
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=12281&group_ID=1657&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
Economy sockets are also available and some times better, the SnapOn socket is rather deep and won't grab much of the square on the short thimble on most steel wheels.

[Rob Peterson]

I have that same Snap-On Budd socket (1.5" + 13/16"). I flagged down a Snap-On truck on the road one day and he pulled over at the next gas station to sell it.

[DadsL130]

A "standard" BUDD socket is 1 1/2" hex x 13/16" square
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=12281&group_ID=1657&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
Economy sockets are also available and some times better, the SnapOn socket is rather deep and won't grab much of the square on the short thimble on most steel wheels.

Thanks Wrench Man - my mistake. Don't want to lead anyone astray. Hard enough getting to know all this stuff when it's correct. Larry